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[Vasya]

Removed old meshes from the Spitfire-5C cockpit folder.
In a simple assembly for patch 4.12.2 it works mediocre.
I don’t know about my ability to work at BAT.
It may be necessary to alter the entire sfs-ku with cockpits.
But I would recommend deleting this cockpit and rolling back to default.
I deleted this cockpit from myself - such a painting of the cockpit is a little heavy for me on unhealthy eyes.
Yours faithfully!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18-slj4Rv2zQ9jgNz07Z0yax4n2FmJptq/view?usp=sharing

[bomberkiller]

Here's the funny thing, I seldom fly the Spitfires, there are so many types I can't seem to get a feel for them. I prefer the Hurricanes.

Hello 9ball,

the same here:

The Spitfire can hardly be kept steady when shooting! I don't think this FM is realistic. 

I prefer my Bf-109's.

Best regards,

Gerhard                           

[Vasya]

There is a paper on Spitfire aerodynamics.
On the graphs of the document, you can configure the Spitfire fm in the IL-2 simulator.
https://www.cfdsupport.com/download/TCFD-Spitfire-Case-Study.pdf

[9ball]

Hey Gerhard,

I thought I might be the only one who couldn't hit anything in the Spits.
The closer I get to the target, the shakier the reticle gets.
Anyway, its good to know I'm not alone with this problem.
I tend to like the older crates, but on the Axis side, I really enjoy the Macchi's and the Fiat's.

Take care, 9ball.

[9ball]

Hi, following many hours viewing the contents of all the .SFS files in BAT03 and BAT03B,
I’ve managed to isolate the main issue with the Spitfire VbT cockpit and all Spitfire Vc pits.
After more hours of narrowing things down via mostly trial and error and some educated guessing,
I’ve come up with a repair that fixes all the Spitfire Vc cockpits and the Spitfire Vb Trop pit.

1st what I found, then what I did about it(with Screenshots) and finally the repair link.

BAT WAW has three .SFS files with Spitfire Vc cockpit folders.
None of these are identical and each has it's own unique Hier file. Not a good idea IMHO.

1.WAW34 (BAT03)
2.WAW70 (BAT03)
3.WAW3DO01 (BAT03B)
These three interact in a manner that cause 3D errors in the Spitfire VbT and all Vc pits.

The following screenshots show the 3D issues:
Clicking on the image will enlarge it.

Spitfire VbT Cockpit 3d errors detailed-




Spitfire VbT Cockpit Close-up detail-




Spitfire VbT Cockpit 3d errors carried over to the Spitfire Vc cockpit-




Spitfire VbT Cockpit 3d errors carried over to the Spitfire Vc2 cockpit-




Spitfire VbT Cockpit 3d errors carried over to the Spitfire Vc4 cockpit-



The rest of the Spitfire Vc cockpits have the same 3D errors.

To remedy this, I've modified WAW3DO01 and WAW34 in the following ways.
(WAW70 has not been altered)

WAW3DO01 Spitfire Vc cockpit folder modification-

Removed entire contents of Spitfire Vc folder and replaced
with the following files:

Body - 3D (Dated:1/2/08) This fixes the VbT canopy issues.
DOSKA - 3D (Dated:12/23/16) This is for the clock.
********************************************************************
hier - HIM (Dated:4/10/17) modified to include the cockpit clock as follows:

[STRELKA_HOUR]
Mesh STRELKA_HOUR
Parent DOSKA
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0.20989 0.01077 0.0387
[STRELKA_MINUTE]
Mesh STRELKA_MINUTE
Parent DOSKA
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0.20989 0.01106 0.0387
[STRELKA_SECUND]
Mesh STRELKA_SECUND
Parent DOSKA
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0.20989 0.01044 0.05124

*********************************************************************
prib_five - MAT (Dated:7/9/08)
prib_five - TGA (Dated:9/15/08) contains clock face
prib_five_night - MAT (Dated:1/2/08)
prib_five_night - TGA (Dated:9/15/08) contains night clock face

These are the only files remaining in WAW3DO01 Spitfire Vc cockpit folder.

WAW34 Spitfire Vc cockpit folder modification-

Removed the entire Spitfire Vc folder from WAW34. This Vc cockpit folder is not required.
It interacts with the WAW70.SFS Spitfire Vc cockpit folder and causes 3D errors.
However, the Body and DOSKA 3D files added to WAW3DO01 above came from this folder.

No modification to WAW70 was done.
The hier in the new WAW3DO01 Spitfire Vc cockpit folder is a modified copy from WAW70.

This was a very tangled web, and took some time to unweave, but my repair appears to work
with no apparent side effects in other cockpits of the game.
The above changes fix the 3D errors in the Spitfire VbT cockpit, without causing errors in the Spitfire Vc cockpits.

Screenshots of the repaired Cockpits:

Spitfire VbT cockpit-




Spitfire Vc cockpit-




Spitfire Vc2 cockpit-




Spitfire Vc4 cockpit-




I’ve placed the repair files in a Jsgmemod for ease of install and test.
Just drop it into BATMODS and enable with JSGME.
Also, in the Zip file are Extras to help with testing.

In the event you don’t trust JSGME, or are squeamish about playing with .SFS files,
I would suggest copying these two original WAW .SFS files and putting them in a safe place.

1.In the BAT03 folder-WAW34.SFS
2.In the BAT03B folder-WAW3DO01.SFS

If you choose to try this out, I suggest its use in a WAW with no Spitfire Mods installed,
so as to remove any possible interaction with the repair. Once it checks out, go ahead
and add the mods back for any further testing.

All the credit for viewing, extracting and re-packing of .SFS files goes to benitomuso,
and his awesome TOTALMODER v3 software.
Where would SAS/BAT be, if that guy hadn’t been around?

Just a word or ten about modifying the .SFS files, I had no other good choices.
The interaction between the three Spitfire cockpit folders in three different .SFS files is profound,
and can’t be overridden by another cockpit mod. This is why modifying the WAW3DO01 Spitfire Vc folder,
and removing the same in WAW34 was key in resolving the 3D issues.
Nothing here is new, all I’ve done is removed conflicts that, should never have occurred,
and re-arranged files and folders in a working order.

I must admit I don’t often fly the Spitfires, but I hated seeing a Legendary Bird messed up like this,
so I’ve done my best to fix the issue and I hope it comes to some use.

Tested in BAT (WAW) versions 4.1.2/4.1.3 only.

Link: https://www.mediafire.com/file/4eio96n7skjdbci/BAT_Spitfire_VbTrop2_and_MkVc_Pit_Repair.7z/file

That’s all I got.
Test the crap out of this and let me know what you see.
Thanks, 9Ball

[henkypenky]

Hi 9Ball, tried this out and it works ok. I must admit that I had never noticed the errors you mentioned, but your fix works perfect. Thanks for your trouble in finding and correcting this.

Added: hope that Vampire_pilot will put this one in the next BAT update.

[9ball]

You're welcome, LOL 
Thanks for checking it out.
9ball.

[whistler]

Excellent post 9ball. Fully detailed. And thanks for the fixes. Your perseverance with SFS reminds me of someone

Here my 2 cents:

SFS folders are scanned in a predefined order. If you open #WAW3\STD\.rc you will find:

@sfsautomount MOUNT BAT03
@sfsautomount MOUNT BAT00
@sfsautomount MOUNT BAT03B

The BAT03 folder will be scanned first, BAT00 second and BAT03B last, in the case of WAW.

SFS in BAT03 will be automatically scanned in ascending order: WAW01.SFS > WAW02.SFS > ... > WAW87.SFS. The same is true for the BAT00 and BAT03B folders.

Only one instance of a same file can exist in a SFS but there can be instances of the same file in different SFS. The last instance of a file (in all SFS) is the file that counts. Previous instances of the same file are obviated or discarded (useless).

In example, if we have:

BAT03/WAW34.SFS/hier.him
BAT03B/WAW3DO01.SFS/hier.him

BAT03B/WAW3DO01.SFS/hier.him is the one that is valid (unless we have yet another hier.him further down the SFS road).

But wait, there's more... any file located in the #WAW3 folder takes preference over any SFS! Say we have:

BAT03/WAW34.SFS/hier.him
BAT03B/WAW3DO01.SFS/hier.him
#WAW3/MyFix/hier.him

You guessed it righ: #WAW3/MyFix/hier.him is the one that counts.


Revisiting SFS to change one or a few files isn't worth it because you must then deliver the SFS with your update. Your download weights more than 300mb when only a few mb changed. The simplest solution isn't always the best but in this case the easiest solution is to include the new hier.him in a brand new SFS that gets scanned last. That's how BAT is normally built to keep download sizes at bay. Alternatively just make use of the #WAW3 folder... That's what most modders do. The BAT Team will hopefully notice your fixes and include them in the next update in the right SFS.

This is just a suggestion so that you don't have to recreate two or three SFS to fix something. Assess the problem and add the fix on top of everything.

Cheers!

[Knochenlutscher]

Sorry that way all VB and VC Cockpits look like early
evenly framed VB Types. and have no opening Canopy.

Prior to that Anno 2016 Cockpit Fix that messes here, we had VBs and VCs
worked out. Giving us 2 seperate Pits.

The trouble at your Fix again the suspicious Bodymesh/Canopy/Blister Combination that can't work.
These crap Files are in UP3 and BAT and can't work with open Canopy framework!!!

2 Weeks constant research, modding... here's what I found

I don't mess with native BAT content and not with that mesh combination, I took 2 Testslots for VB and VC,
gave them independent Pits classes and started investigating the meshes.
My first attempt was building up our 2015 Cockpit states and search the culprit of the mess, found in
a Gunsight/POV Fix from Anno 2016 for Spit VB. If used it breaks all hells lose.
Just for Info, we have plenty of meshes to play through if we sandbox,
and that's my attempt.

Cockpit states:

VA Okay/Open Canopy
VB Okay/Open Canopy
VC Okay/Open Canopy

Have all Cockpits working, POVs fine, open canopies on all V Models.
Filterless VCs, UI VC FB Slots + Float VB.
Now comes the best part, I use a heavilly modded BAT workbase.
I must cutout this state of the Pits for use.
It's the content of 8 Folders going logicly in hierarchy atop our BAT.
Wish me luck at this process,

Prost Gentlemen

[9ball]

Hi whistler,
Thanks for your input and advice. My first approach was via #WAW3, but if I remember correctly I could not get the Vc pit clocks to work.
I suspected a load order issue with the WAW70 hier, so that's why I went the way I did.
As I've said, a lot of trial and error was done here. I am not saying this is the best solution, just the best one I could come up with.
I'm not so sure due to level of interaction I've seen with all the Vc pit folders, that leaving them as is, is a good idea.
I tried incorporating my WAW3DO01 files into WAW70, with good results in the VbT/Vc pits, but my repack of WAW70 was bad, and caused
ill effects in other cockpits from WAW70. WAW70 is over 1GB unpacked with mostly hash and class files plus the 3do's.
None of my SFS packers, including TotalModer3, could successfully repack it for me.
Maybe if the BAT team looks at this, they could get it done.
I suspect Tobias may have the best solution, if he can relieve us of all these extra Spitfire Vc pits, and do something all NEW.
That would be Great,
9ball.

[whistler]

Well, you most definitively enjoy puzzles so keep at it. Some levels must be yet unveiled

None of my SFS packers, including TotalModer3, could successfully repack it for me.

Right, SFS packers aren't optimized for large content. The more files you want to pack the more RAM you need. And I mean A LOT of RAM.

[Knochenlutscher]

This is a peak into what I have atm. All efforts need Java and Files handling.
Handling just one of that part, Canopies will be stuck closed.

But I'm not happy, I know somewhere is a thinking glitch. Will setup a new Trial this Weekend,
starting with a clean BAT and their Dumps. I traced an interesting find in some Slots.
Let's see how far I can fiddle that up.
Will get back later Today at this,