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Author Topic: Fi-156 clones  (Read 25113 times)

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kumpel

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Fi-156 clones
« on: June 17, 2011, 07:56:02 PM »

Here is an attempt to use an extremely poor model of Fi-156 in the game as a basis for various clones of this aircraft.

Included are the French versions Morane Saulnier MS-500, MS-502 and MS-505 as well as the Russian Antonov OKA-38.
There is also a simplified version of MRAZ K-65 selectable by skin for MS-500.
All planes have their own individual FMs and sound sets, and require the DiFF_FM to be present.

A few new techniques were employed to achieve reasonable results, for all to explore.
The project is almost ready for release, except for the Fi-156 which requires more work.

CREDITS
This mod is made possible by and based on original 3d models and textures by Ranwers

PLEASE NOTE
The development of this mod started under version 4.09 as an off-line project.
For convenience, this published WIP is for version 4.10, and has been tested under SAS, DBW and UP3 installations
(although it is not meant to be used under UP3 which is for on-line players only).
The final version will include 4.09 option.




DOWNLOAD

https://www.mediafire.com/?3l2dfkmp4c8wami

https://www.mediafire.com/?391hotlp1abyt9l

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Verhängnis

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Re: Fi-156 clones
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2011, 02:31:51 AM »

Kumpel may I suggest using Photobucket for your images, we cannot see them otherwise.

Is this just the cockpit or a new external model aswell?
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kumpel

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Re: Fi-156 clones
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2011, 04:11:29 AM »

Pictures moved to Photobucket, thanks for the suggestion.

These are complete planes with cockpits, sound etc.
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Greif11

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Re: Fi-156 clones
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2011, 05:34:05 AM »

I have done minor patch for "Antonov OKA-38".  On dashboard corrected some labels.
Plane short history:
Name "Aist"-translation for Storch. Pre War official license production. Difference only in powerplant.
Built on plant #365 in Kaunas(Lietuva) after Soviet annexation at 1940.


http://dispersalfield.ru/main/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=322.0;attach=1481 Day panel
http://dispersalfield.ru/main/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=322.0;attach=1482 Night panel
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saab ja26

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Re: Fi-156 clones
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2011, 10:23:01 AM »

Many thanks for this!
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kumpel

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Re: Fi-156 clones
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2011, 10:23:34 AM »

Thanks for the corrections and the info. I based the panel on this photo:


The cylinder temperature gauge does have "cylindr" written in the middle and 350 full scale value. The writings I put on this gauge are from one of the Russian books about WW2 instruments.
What is written on the label at the bottom of the panel I could not decipher, so I put some aircraft info there.
May be you would be able to pick something up from these writings.

The story about "Aist", that I could find, always mentiones Antonov's own design based on Fi-156.

Official license is never mentioned neither in Russian nor German documents from Fieseler that I could find.
Although it is well kown that there was very close Russian-German cooperation in the military aviation before WW2.

P.S. I tried to put some Russian text here but it came out as a row of happy faces....
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Greif11

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Re: Fi-156 clones
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2011, 01:06:16 PM »

In the top row of the plate is said:liaison aircraft(CC-russian abbreviation for)OKA(Oleg Konstantinovich Antonov) 38 year of design??. Aist -exakt translation for Schtorkh. Next Zavod #365-means plant #365.
NKAP-abbreviation for People's Commissariate of aircraft build industry. (Russian analogue for RLM exept military command funktion).
Schtorkh was gift from Ernest Udet to Russians. About official license i read in aircraft dosier On Russian Resources. That was debut projekt for the young Oleg Antonov.With that starts  career of aircraft chief designer. Mainly problem was adaptation of airframe for russian produced Reno "Bengali" licensed engine(air cooled MV-6). License excluded Argus engine. OKA-38 was heavier then Schtorkh by 100kg But range of aircraft was 514km Range of Sch. was 330km.Weight worsened takeoff and landing performance of OKA-38.
First planes built in Leningrad's(St.Petersburg) plant #23. Serial production started on plant N-365 In Kaunas where Before was prodused similar construction Lietuvian ANBO.

On photo ANBO-41 No.671 of the first serial production in Kaunas.
After entry into the war of the Soviet Union plant N365 was air raided by Lufwaffe. Project was abandoned and newer renewed. Antonov design included folding wings and change of airframe materials.
About temperature (Cylinder Head Temperature) Thermo couple sensor TCT-9 is still in production
I put there Standard



Another kind of Russian thermal sensors for Cyl head is TCT-13 of Postwar design

And other Russian instruments
























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kumpel

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Re: Fi-156 clones
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2011, 08:21:08 PM »

I would like to include some reliable info on the OKA-38 in the final package, so let’s put together what we know into a consistent description.

As far as serial production is concerned, apparently, the original plan was to copy Fi-156 and start serial production in the “aviazavod 23”.  Antonov managed to copy it but that was as far as it went. Incidentally, beside the engine, OKA-38 and Fi-156 show many differences in design that go well beyond the adaptation to Russian materials – like empanage, wing design including positive dihedral angle, etc. – one can hardly talk about “license”. The difference in performance was due to more than a weaker engine and higer weight. The max weight for Fi-156C-2 was 1325kg, almost the same as OKA-38, yet it needed half the distance to take-off.
If there was serial production are there any records of the numbers built, or some indication where were they used?

Did you managed to find, perhaps, some info on the MV-6 engine. What I know is that it was a turbocharged unit with variable angle propeller. How the propeller worked is not clear, as the OKA cockpit does not seem to have any control.

It looks that the temperature gauge, used on many Russian planes, had several versions including the one that you posted but also the one that I put there originally – not a big deal this one.
What did you put on the clock face? I would like to include it in my PSD original.
I think, the handle for engine primer should read  "zalivka motora” or “zalivka pompy”, it appears like that on pictures of the U-2VS panel and in the pilot’s handbook. It was, in fact, a valve rather than a hand pump like on the US planes.

By deciphering info on the panel plate I meant that one on the B&W picture, I can read Russian.

P.S. If we want to be historically exact, Soviet Union entered WW2 on the 17 Sep 1939 with the invasion of Poland.
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Greif11

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Re: Fi-156 clones
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2011, 02:09:14 AM »

Thanks Now i try to give ansvers .
1)After visit To Volkes Reich in october 1939 Russians bring 2 Fi-156 to USSR 1 remains in flying cond untill1948. Another was canibalized for copy purposes.
2)About License ??????? After Russian paranoid secrecy You don't exactly know abt Poland And another dirty deeds. But name of plane remain intact. Aist-Storch.>>>>>that shows license.
More info abt you can find in book of D.A. Sobolev, “German trace in Soviet aviation history”
3) “aviazavod 23” was for design purpose Serial production started on  “aviazavod 365”Kaunas.
4)MV-6 Russian "Bengali" really turbocharged but with constant pitch wooden propeller........... :( Russians
5)temp gauge is standard    but Russian practice was writing with white paint ower gauge glass(some corrections if needed) Chew end of wooden matchstick, deep that improvised brush in white paint and write.
6)Brand logo on clock face is marking of "Orlovskiy chasovoj zavod"--means "Clock manufacture in Orel city Russia"
7)engine priming means -Pre start Oil priming In Russian (Maslo prokachivajushij nasos) Hand pump handle

But if that FUEL priming hand pump Must have yellow handle without markings. But must have label "Ruchnoy benzonasos"--- fuel hand pump or (manual fuel pump)
8)Decipher of plate is problem B&W book illustration of lowest quality.


About clock I found most primitive soviet model Used on U-2 R-5 and T-34 tanks

And other Fly clock
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Greif11

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Re: Fi-156 clones
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2011, 06:54:21 AM »

That photo Shows prewar cooperation USSR-Reich
In center group middle is A.Yakovlev chief designer of YAKs



5th from left  ? ?

HE-100 test program in middle S.P.Suprun(ch test pilot from USSR side)

Color schemes and ferry German numbers for 1940 planes in Soviet test program

On 2 photos below Bf-109B But both photo marked "SECRET"

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kumpel

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Re: Fi-156 clones
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2011, 08:22:45 AM »

Nice bunch of guys... they look like a matching party for Al Capone on the other side of Atlantic.

Greif,
Here you can find some explanation how the engine priming device worked:
http://www.aviation.ru/contrib/Andrey_Platonov/Yak-3/PilotManual/Chapt1/index.htm#inject
It was used in many Russian planes of that era, and similar descriptions are in their handbooks - none of them is using the terminology that you quoted.
Technology moves on, what is used in aviation nowadays may not be a good guide for understanding how things were in 1940s.
Your comments about license remain unconvincing. Do you happen to have this book that you mentioned? If so, would you be so kind to make me a copy of the pages that explain how such licensing was arranged?

Gerax,
I am aware of Skipper's mod. To be honest, it does not appear to be in the same league as mine, looks more like a quick fix for fun use. I have done complete overhaul of the original model with many things corrected and improved, wherever it was reasonable to do it (a lot of junk still remains there). There are also numerous additions to make it look like the real thing.
I would be happy to expand MS-502 to some war applications if there was enough interest around. This was by far the most used version of the Morane Saulnier's Storch (or Criquet as they called it). Ranwers and I are planning to relese much improved version of Fi-156 in the near future.
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Greif11

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Re: Fi-156 clones
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2011, 09:49:49 AM »

@kumpel Thanx All solved with priming  spritze . Soon i make correktions for.
About that book sorry still no  E Book But paper copy there http://www.retroplan.ru/encyclopaedia.html?sobi2Task=sobi2Details&sobi2Id=722
Another info here http://www.toyota-club.net/files/07-01-10/07-01-10_lib_pyh_torg.htm
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