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Author Topic: F-4 Phantom II's released v1.31 for Jetwar1.2 (17/10/2012)  (Read 285315 times)

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brettt777

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Re: F-4E Phantom II released v1.1
« Reply #324 on: February 25, 2012, 10:24:38 PM »

Okay so I'm up and running in my Phantom and getting use to it. I've used the sidewinders and sparrows to take out a couple MiGs. Everything seems to be working...except none of the gauges or radar work. Is it safe to assume that as the plane gets upgraded, the gauges and maybe even the radar will be operational at some point?
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S3231541

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Re: F-4E Phantom II released v1.1
« Reply #325 on: February 25, 2012, 10:37:54 PM »

The cockpit is a WIP and not a beta. Do you want to fly a Phantom in a Sabre pit  ::)?

All Beta 3 will be dedicated for cockpit building. Including 3d and texture fix and animating some gauges. Regarding the Radar, code are still under development and once we got it, we'll get it to the F-4s ASAP.

Cheers,

s3231541
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Roger Smith

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Re: F-4E Phantom II released v1.1
« Reply #326 on: February 25, 2012, 10:41:00 PM »

maybe even the radar will be operational at some point?

meanwhile, you could use the Minimap mod. it has a Radial and Frontal radar
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F22-Raptor-2006

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Re: F-4E Phantom II released v1.1
« Reply #327 on: February 26, 2012, 03:01:22 AM »

This may not be the problem but perhaps some users may not realise this which is the fact the airbrakes are down by default at the start. If you mistake it to look like flaps then well maybe it'll be causing problems on take off. Last time I tried (not sure if it was old or new fm) the plane took off easily first time.... just remember you must raise your airbrakes after starting the engine. Same as the F-86 which airbrakes will drop down into extended position when the engine is off. The Phantom has the same thing.
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Roger Smith

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Re: F-4E Phantom II released v1.1
« Reply #328 on: February 26, 2012, 03:05:32 AM »

same here, F-86 and F4 has airbrake problem. doesn't raise unless engines are on
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BT~Tarik

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Re: F-4E Phantom II released v1.1
« Reply #329 on: February 26, 2012, 03:13:10 AM »

Yes it is the airbrakes that prevent you from taking off if you forget them^^

solo wing pixy, it's not a problem, the airbrakes are controlled by the hydraulics, which only work when the engine is running. So no engine=airbrake out.
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Herra Tohtori

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Re: F-4E Phantom II released v1.1
« Reply #330 on: February 26, 2012, 03:33:52 AM »

Ok, did some test flying with v1.1. Here's some feedback.

The aircraft is capable of some astonishing things, for example when you fly to about 30,000 ft and accelerate to +2000 km/h (TAS) and initiate a zoom climb, these are the results...



Climbed to altitude of 10000 metres with drop tank on, and accelerated to 2155 km/h which seemed to be the top speed with DT on. Dropped the tank, and she slowly accelerated to 2250 km/h. At this speed it is rather hard to maintain flight level.

After reaching about that top speed I initiated a vertical climb.

She climbs like a rocket; at 20,000 metres altitude she's still doing about 1600 km/h. At 30,000 km, upward speed was still 578 km/h but at about that point she started to pitch down since air was too thin for control surfaces to maintain vertical attitude.

Peak altitude was approximately 31,370 metres, at which point the velocity was merely 193 km/h. Notably, the aircraft feels very stable and I have so far been unable to put her in unrecoverable flight state.

Both unaccelerated and accelerated stalls are very benign and stable. The aircraft is not prone to tip stalling, instead in unaccelerated stall the nose simply starts to gently drop once airspeed goes too low. Accelerated stalls (as in loading the wing to critical angle of attack and beyond by pitching up) are very stable as well, and positive control over all main axes (pitch, roll, yaw) are maintained.

Spins can be initiated with neutral aileron, full elevator up, and rudder at either direction. If these controls are maintained for sufficiently long time, the aircraft will enter a flat spin, rotating about her vertical axis. Spin recovery seems to work best with low throttle setting, neutral ailerons, elevator down and opposite rudder. She recovers well enough, but obviously takes quite a bit of altitude to do so. I initiated spin at about 4500 metres altitude and recovered at 2400. The official guideline was, apparently, to bail if aircraft was out of control below 10,000 ft (about 3000 metres) and I can see why.

I was doing my flight testing with the F-4D with 50% internal fuel load, one drop tank used for initial climb and acceleration, then I dropped the fuel tank and tested the aircraft with low wing loading. (I dropped the bombs in the loadout as the sortie started).

Jettison stores does not work on my installation currently, but I remember seeing issues with it reported by other players. Will look into it.



I also noticed that once in-flight, the hydraulic system remains operative despite loss of both engines due to fuel starvation. Is this intentional? Does the aircraft have a ram air scoop, or does it generate hydraulic power with an APU? I don't know the hydraulics/power system layout for the F-4, but usually APU's generate pneumatic pressure and electricity required to run the aircraft and start the engines, and hydraulic pressure is derived from main engines. If the APU was used to generate hydraulic pressure, then maybe a third engine with zero thrust could be added to the flight model. It would be great to also have batteries and generators simulated (no APU or engines, you run on batteries only; with APU or engine generators online the batteries recharge).

Does the game support variable hydraulic pressure? As in, if you have lower hydraulic pressure, the control inputs would be more sluggish and you would have reduced blowback limits, too. Or is the hydraulics more of an on/off thing at the moment?

Actually it makes sense that with no hydraulic power, the airbrakes wouldn't come out in-flight; the dynamic pressure would keep them retracted. However I fully expected loss of control after running out of fuel.

Also, flaps seem to be unaffected by the hydraulic system. Is this accurate? Were the flaps electrically actuated in the Phantom? If not, then I think flaps should also be fully down with no hydraulic pressure.

With the flight surfaces still functioning despite loss of engine power (and hydraulic pressure, assumedly), deadstick landings are doable but require quite steep approach to keep your speed up, use airbrakes (again with no hydraulic pressure this would be impossible) to control airspeed, and flare above threshold.

There is a strange glitch when opening canopy; wrong part of the 3D model disappears from the view, namely the front window frame. This looks especially strange as the round rivets or whatever they are remain in place, hovering in mid-air in front of the pilot. The actual canopy frame remains in view around the pilot. The rear pilot's canopy can be seen opening and closing.


One of the new pilot textures is a 256^2 texture and the other is a 512^2 texture. Both are indexed TGA's. Brief testing shows that 24-bit TGA works just as well, at least on my installation. Might be worth looking into, considering the increase in quality with 24bit colours compared to indexed colours, and the filesize increase is not substantial either way. GPU-wise, indexed and 24-bit textures of identical resolution consume the same amount of video memory, so I would advocate using as little indexed textures as possible.
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SAS~Malone

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Re: F-4E Phantom II released v1.1
« Reply #331 on: February 26, 2012, 03:56:09 AM »

i'd just like to take this opportunity to re-iterate for those who are still new to the Phantom, and experiencing problems of any sort - please guys, do us (and yourself) a favour and READ THROUGH THIS ENTIRE THREAD BEFORE POSTING with questions that have already been asked and answered, on more than one occasion, in the thread, so that you don't push anyone's blood-pressure through the roof by asking questions which have already been covered.
it displays quite a bit of disrespect - if you don't want to be bothered checking the thread first, then why should those that are trying to help be bothered to help with this pure laziness?
come on, folks, let's be fair about this, and at least check that you are not asking the same questions that someone else asked yesterday, or the day before, already.
READ the thread! how hard can that be?
right, back to business - off to down me some MiGs! :D
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Herra Tohtori

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Re: F-4E Phantom II released v1.1
« Reply #332 on: February 26, 2012, 04:26:39 AM »

To borrow the words of the ancient philosopher Clarksonius, 4th century BC...

how hard can that be?

Anyway, I did some additional testing on the FM (F-4D).

It seems impossible to reach or go beyond VNE. Even on a powerdive from 30 km altitude, the airframe won't really accelerate much past 2300 km/h or so and this doesn't seem to be causing any flutter, structural failures, or engine damage.

I did some slow speed flight testing with the F-4D. In dirty configuration (gear down, airbrake retracted, flaps fully deployed) the aircraft seems to have stall speed* of about 180 km/h IAS and maintains level flight attitude at full up elevator and 73% throttle setting, flying at estimated 15% angle of attack and holding steady (again, with 50% internal fuel load, no external stores). Elevator locked in full up position, you can control pitch attitude and vertical speed with throttle. Roll and yaw control is good, aircraft can be accurately banked and turned although this obviously leads to a descent if you don't increase of airspeed.











*I use the term "stall speed" loosely as synonymous to airspeed where you have insufficient lift to maintain level flight. The aircraft doesn't actually stall at this position, since the angle of attack doesn't go beyond critical, but instead the airspeed determines the available lift and thus affects the vertical speed. The high drag of the aircraft at high-alpha attitude with flaps and gear deployed is shown by the amount of thrust required to maintain sufficient airspeed - 73% is actually close to 100% power since afterburners engage at 75% (I'm assuming the orange flames that appear are supposed to be the afterburner flames).


Oh, by the way, is it possible to increase the speed of smoke particles coming out of engine at over 35% throttle? It looks very strange when they just slowly pour out of the tailpipes when you are sitting on the tarmac.
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F22-Raptor-2006

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Re: F-4E Phantom II released v1.1
« Reply #333 on: February 26, 2012, 04:36:38 AM »

@Herra Tohtori

Indexed textures are preferable to 24bit. There are more colours in 24bit but if you convert it to indexed mode correctly your eyes can't actually tell the difference. We paint all of our skins in 24bit and save in indexed. 24bit is only required for tga's that need alpha channel. Otherwise indexed should be used, it is the game's native format and it lowers processing time as well as memory space. Cockpits run smoother all in indexed mode than with large 24bit file sizes. All of the cockpits in the jet era package have indexed tga's unless they require alpha channel ;)
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noobplayer

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Re: F-4E Phantom II released v1.1
« Reply #334 on: February 26, 2012, 04:53:27 AM »

Erm i'm having some problems. my F-4 phantom does not have leading edge flaps and i only have the default skin.
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4S_Vega

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Re: F-4E Phantom II released v1.1
« Reply #335 on: February 26, 2012, 04:58:34 AM »

Ok, did some test flying with v1.1. Here's some feedback.

The aircraft is capable of some astonishing things, for example when you fly to about 30,000 ft and accelerate to +2000 km/h (TAS) and initiate a zoom climb, these are the results...

Climbed to altitude of 10000 metres with drop tank on, and accelerated to 2155 km/h which seemed to be the top speed with DT on. Dropped the tank, and she slowly accelerated to 2250 km/h. At this speed it is rather hard to maintain flight level.

After reaching about that top speed I initiated a vertical climb.

She climbs like a rocket; at 20,000 metres altitude she's still doing about 1600 km/h. At 30,000 km, upward speed was still 578 km/h but at about that point she started to pitch down since air was too thin for control surfaces to maintain vertical attitude.

Peak altitude was approximately 31,370 metres, at which point the velocity was merely 193 km/h. Notably, the aircraft feels very stable and I have so far been unable to put her in unrecoverable flight state.


i have set both D/E versions to climb at 11000m from breaks release in 2 mins with 100% fuel

with 20% fuel the time is about 1.35

climbing from 1000m at 1000kmh in default (100%fuel) it can reach 10k in 42 sec wit an average climb speed of 214m/s

cecking Historical results of operation High Jump the XF4H, that climbed at 12k in 77s from break release, so faster then these F4s

during the test for FM i have build a model able to reach that results with 20% fuel, but i think, contrary to the assertions of McDonnell Douglas, that the plane used in High Jump operation didn't was totally stock (expecially in takeoff performances), then i created a model less exuberant

the top speed is not 2250, both version can go over 2350 if you use propely the trim ;)

   
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