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[Kopfdorfer]

Hey Guys,

              I'm working on an historical mission for Operation Jubilee , the raid by Canadian 2nd Division on Aug 19 , 1942 on Dieppe France. There are appropriate paintschemes out there for MkVs , but I can't find one for the MkIXBs that were providing high cover.

This is the paint scheme :


I know this is a Vb , but I believe the IXbs did receive the special stripes as well.

Let me know if anyone has one of these in an old folder , or is willing to lash one up - not in HD please.
I would prefer blank with tailflash.

Thanks

Kopfdorfer

[greybeard]

Thanks for interesting image about Dieppe's Spitfires. I had never saw such a paint scheme.

Sorry for dumb question: is there a Mk.IXB in game?

[Phas3e]

Try this on for size

https://www.mediafire.com/?71so9biw1hllmzj

[pierre118]

there are many skin here :

http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Spitfire/MkVb-RAF-331Sqn-FN.html

[SAS~Gerax]

Found two Skins by Harpia-Mafra55, Template by Jesters-Ink.

Spitfire MkVb 31.FG, 340.Sqn ('Ile de France') CO.B.Duperier Dieppe 8-1942
+ a blank version.

dl the attached skins below.

[Kopfdorfer]

Thanks Guys for the interest and quick responses.

Thanks for the link to the skin Phase3 - just what I was looking for.

Greybeard - a real Spit officionado could well want to correct me but here goes...

1) What is a Spit IXB and
2) Do we have it in the game?

As many of you know , the letter following the mark number insofar as Spitfires were concerned denotes the structure of the wing , and how it was ported for weapons and ordinance.
Because I know there are scholars out there on this site who know better than I the exact differences I'll leave it to them for the details , but the broad strokes as I understand them are that the B type wing was faired for one 20mm Hispano cannon and 2 browning .303 machine guns per wing. The C wing had the same weapons ( the Hispano had a different ammo load - I don't know if it was the same mark cannon) , but featured the ability to attach ordinance ( and droptanks?) . The E type wing featured the 20mm Hispano and a single .50 cal browning MG per wing.

I think there also exists the possibility that the IXB might represent the first run of MkIXs which were in fact simply up-engined MkVBs ( I stand to be corrected here) that began their service as VBs.
I would appreciate a real expert speaking up here to get this right.

Greybeard , I expect the answer to your question is that in fact NO the MkIXB has not been incorporated into our structure , but I don't know for sure.

Again thanks guys.  I didn't expect a skin request to stir up questions , but I am glad it did - even better if an expert chimes in to sort us all out.

Kopfdorfer

[HBPencil]

As many of you know , the letter following the mark number insofar as Spitfires were concerned denotes the structure of the wing , and how it was ported for weapons and ordinance.

Generaly speaking that's correct, however that's not the case with the IXA and IXB. The comprehensive naming system (such as is used in-game) wasn't formed untill late in 1943 and even after it was many pilots and squadrons continued to use the IXA/IXB designation in their logs and reports.
The Mk IX was introduced using the Merlin 61 then later the Merlin 63 (basically the same thing in terms of performance, just the 63 is of a stronger construction), but then in the spring of 1943 (in March iirc) the Merlin 66 was introduced to the Spitfire Mk IX series. As the 66 gave quite different performance compared to the 61/63 (changes to the supercharger meant the 66 gave its best performance at the same altitudes as the Fw190 had it's best performance) the squadrons needed a way of differentiating between those Mk IXs powered by the 61/63 and those with the 66, so they started calling those with the 61/63 the IXA and those with the 66 the IXB. The problem with this of course is that since the war people have gotten confused and thought that there were Mk IXs with type 'a' and 'b' wings which is not the case, they had either 'c' or 'e' wings.
What does this mean for IL2? Well, any Mk IX with the prefix 'F' is the same thing as the IXA (i.e. powered by the Merlin 61 or 63), while any with the prefix 'LF' is the IXB (i.e. powered by the Merlin 66). For the Dieppe raid you'll want to use the F IXc, 1942 for historical accuracy.
 

Because I know there are scholars out there on this site who know better than I the exact differences I'll leave it to them for the details , but the broad strokes as I understand them are that the B type wing was faired for one 20mm Hispano cannon and 2 browning .303 machine guns per wing. The C wing had the same weapons ( the Hispano had a different ammo load - I don't know if it was the same mark cannon) , but featured the ability to attach ordinance ( and droptanks?) . The E type wing featured the 20mm Hispano and a single .50 cal browning MG per wing.

Here's a link to a good description of Spitfire wing types: http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/concise-guide-to-spitfire-wing-types.html
In very basic terms, the type 'c' wing has double the cannon ammo (and a more reliable feed) and has more stable ground handling than the 'b' wing.

Hope this helps,

HB

[Kopfdorfer]

Thanks Pencil
All the mist is clearing!

Kopfdorfer

[greybeard]

Trying to clear at all the mist, I would try to sketch a pictorial summary. Quoting from 4.10 User Guide:

"• Spitfire F IX, 1942: The first Spitfires with a two stage supercharger. It was powered
by a Merlin 61 engine at 15lb boost. It started to come off the assembly lines in the
summer of 1942. The two stage supercharger gave it a clearly better high altitude
performance than that of the contemporary Mk.V. The high altitudes this plane could
reach necessitated a fuel cooler, so that the fuel in the tanks would not evaporate in the
low pressure environment up high. The plane was used until the wars end.
• Spitfire F IX, 1943: The second major model of the Mk.IX with a Merlin 63 engine at
18lb boost. It was the major model of the Mk.IX in the first half of 1943. It outperforms
the 1942 model at medium and low altitudes. It was used until the wars end.
• Spitfire LF IX, 1943: In the second half of 1943, the Spitfire Mk.IX started to be
equipped with the Merlin 66 engine at 18lb boost. This engine was optimized for lower
altitudes than the Merlin 63. The need for a fuel cooler was eliminated by using
pressurized tanks and a universal air intake became standard at that time. The Merlin
66 models became the by far most common subversions of the Mk.IX."

Spitfire Mk.IXB was an intermediate version, matching late power plant with early frame, and especially tail.






Since it appeared in the spring of 1943 (as pointed out by HB), I think it could not participate to Dieppe landings on Aug 19 , 1942. Indeed, it looks appropriate that the so-called Mk.IXA variant took part to the unfortunate attempt of invasion.

Greetings,
GB

[Kopfdorfer]

Hey Guys,

Greybeard , I love the idea of a pictorial guide . and using one based on what is in IL2 - whichever mod set you are using.

BUT it has always bugged me that most of the MkIX spits in the game have the broad chord (sharp tip) tail , when in fact it was a rather late add - all the reference photos I can find show mostly round chord tails until very late in the war - spring of '45 mostly.

Here's the standard (and most common for most of the war) shape


Here is the later tail design


Here is an LF IXC (MH434 manufactured in Aug 1943 , and operational until the end of the war


Also according to the wiki article on Spitfire technical development (how accurate?) , the Spitfire LF IXC = Spitfire IXB(Merlin66).

There used to be a round tail MkIX mod , but I don't know where my copy of it is.

Anyway,

Thanks for all the info.

Kopfdorfer

[greybeard]

BUT it has always bugged me that most of the MkIX spits in the game have the broad chord (sharp tip) tail , when in fact it was a rather late add - all the reference photos I can find show mostly round chord tails until very late in the war - spring of '45 mostly.

I agree. Following photo shows a Canadian 401st Squadron Spitfire Mk.IXB at Eindhoven during late 1944-early 1945.


I think would be easy for TD to fix current LF IXc just replacing its rudder.

Thanks for neat and interesting photos.

GB

[henkypenky]

Clearing some more mist: the appearance of the Fw-190 was a big threat to the RAF as the Spitfire Mk V was no match. New variants were under development, but not ready for operational use very quick.
The Air Ministry decide to convert a number of Spitfire V's with the Merlin 61 and AB196 and AB197 and these flew with their new engines in February and March 1942. The combination was a good one and
Supermarine was ordered to convert 100 Mk Vc's, to be delivered to the RAF by the end of June under the designation F Mk IX. In the end Supermarine converte 52 and Rolls Royce the remaining 48.
The Mk V's were in the serial range BR and BS and had the original MK V fin and (rounded) rudder, armament was 'B' or 'C' wing. So there's the designation Mk IXb.