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[csvousden]

I have found the sfs file that seems to create the torpedo misplacement on a number of planes; most prominently the TBD.  Unfortunately, I have no way to do anything about it. This sfs file when extracted does contain some torpedo stuff, but what it means or how to correct it is beyond me. 

up_objects04.sfs

I am hoping that some one much smarter can isolate and correct the issue.  All I know is that when I remove it the torpedo is where it is supposed to be, and when the sfs file is there, the torpedo is suspended low and without visible means of support.

thanks to anyone who can address this!
CV

[vpmedia]

I posted some info and a fix for the TBD-1 here:
https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,40015.msg489752.html#msg489752

[csvousden]

VP, I love your work!  Yes, I did apply your fix, but like jpten, I think the glitch is broader than just the American planes:
"They also hang too low on the Coastal Command planes in TFM412-29 pack...." So I dug around until I found the conflict in both TFM and just plain old SAS versions of the game.   It is definitely that sfs file. I think it is just the mk 13 basic torpedo that is affected, but of that I am less certain.

Do you know anything about modifying the msh files inside an sfs file?  Of course, I completely defer to your expertise, because I have none! 

And I am very grateful for your work and that of everyone else who makes this game so wonderful.  I eagerly await all your fixes!  And all the other additions to this evolutionary project you wish to offer!

Thank you for looking at this.

cv

[western0221]

TFM may be only collections of indivisual MOD aircrafts.
So, some aircraft MOD caising that bugs contained in TFM's sfs may be published in SAS in fresh (non sfs) style.

[csvousden]

Western,

You can test this and it really is the up_objects04.sfs file. 

It affects the American torpedo planes and Doc's coastal command MK X Beaufighters.

With the file in, whether SAS or TFM, and the torpedoes are too low.  Take it out, the torpedoes are placed correctly.

And that sfs when extracted does contain mk13 torpedo files.  Something in there is the issue.  Vp's fix does deal with the TBD, but still leaves the other airplanes hanging, if you will forgive the pun.

[csvousden]

VP, I was just checking that AI Flyables issue, because I have one version of the game that is SAS modact with limited mods.  In that one, I have the AI flyables with the sfs file you mention and the torpedoes are fine either way: with AI on or off. 

When I add the up_objects04.sfs files I then get the glitch.  I just rechecked it.  Do you have the objects files in your game?  It is interesting because the up_objects04.sfs has three mk 13 related files in it. When I extracted the sas ai sfs, I mostly found cockpit related files. 

Also the only thing I can change after starting from scratch and applying all the jgsme stuff and lots of mod stuff that affected the torpedo placement in my game was that  up_objects04.sfs. 

Your fix worked for the TBD for sure, but still leaves Docs CC Beaufighters and the Avengers hanging low. 

I am just trying to help pinpoint the issue as a minor league assistant, and in no way criticizing, because I don't know how to fix the problem, but hopefully can help you locate it faster.

CV

[vpmedia]

I removed the up_objects04.sfs file but I still get the problem with TBF-1/1C, TBM-3 and probably a few more I didnt find yet.
But now I double checked my theory and it was wrong, turning off sas_ai_3do01.sfs did not help. I must have been tired when I first checked My sfs extraction rate for up_objects04.sfs is 9% so I dont know whats in it.

After reading your I removed bot the ai sfs and the up_objects04 file but the problem is still there. I got no clue how or why because a few days ago I extracted the original Maddox games files of the TBM-3 and put them all in my mods folder, so if there would have been a changed hook it would have fixed it, but it didnt.

I checked in DBW 1.71, the problem isnt there. Only in 4.12, so I would assume that the problem is caused by something new which is not in DBW.

[csvousden]

Thanks for your work with this.  (This game fascinates me and I have about 12 different versions of it on my rig.) 

The most consistent issue I have found is with the up_objects04sfs file, but I do have one very heavily modded version that seems to have permanently screwed up the mk13 placement no matter which sfs file I take out. 

Nevertheless, the reason I am convinced it is the up_objects04 is because I stripped down a 4.12.2 game to bare bones and worked my way up.  (I agree it is only affecting 4.12 games.)  So with SAS modact alone, I added several mods but not the objects files and all was good.  I added whole great bunches of jgsme mods and all was good.  Then I added the up_objects files one by one.  The problem showed up in #4 and I could replicate it in my straight TFM game as well. 

In monty's game, if I remove the up objects #4 all is well.  If I put it in, the mk 13 hangs low. 

Also when I extracted the files from up objects #4 I found these three files--one of which I suspect must be the problem:

3do/Arms/Mk13_1/Body.msh
3do/Arms/Mk13_1/mono.sim
3do/Arms/Mk13_1/Ordnance1

And I think it must be the 55k Body.msh file. 

I am not thinking this is the only conflict, but I suspect it starts whatever others are out there.  Because as I concur, I have a heavily modded SAS game that seems to have been permanently influenced to keep the mk 13 torpedoes low no matter what I change now.  Only your TBD fix worked, but only for the TBDs.  The TBF and other avengers still show it low as do DOCs CC Beaufighters.

For me this has been a fascinating search and it will be a triumph if it can be solved, but I will love the game and the torpedoes regardless of the outcome on this.

CV

[vpmedia]

I came to the same conclusion, the problem is with the torpedo and not the plane.
In the stock game the Mk.13 torpedo is 3do\Arms\Mk13_Torpedo\Body.msh
in 4.12 SAS modact this changed to 3do\Arms\Mk13_new\body.MSH, the other is 3do\Arms\Mk13_LATE_new\body.MSH

I managed to fix it by adding the files from an old weapons mod:
http://ulozto.net/xWYBuzye/mk13-torpedo-fix-7z

This is just a quick, temporary fix.
TBD-1 weapons hook needs to be adjusted for this fix.
The other - no too elegant - option was to change the hook in each plane which has this type of ordnance problem.

[Dreamk]

The problem comes from the dual use of hooks for bomb and torpedo on the TBD fuselage - though these are positioned according to different rules in Il2. The solution to this catch 22 situation is to add a specific torpedo hook on the CF_D0 and keep the current hook for bombs - but this demands also to correct the weapons array in the java class of the aircraft in question.

All the core Il2 bombs have a pivot at (0,0,0) BUT they are positioned so as, when they are aligned along their longitudinal x axis, with their pivot at (0,0,0), the upper border or their body is tangent to a line aligned along the lateral y axis, positioned at z = 0.1585.
This is true for all bombs and clusters - except the bomblets released by clusters which are centered on (0,0,0), no matter their volume.
Rockets are similarly centered on (0,0,0) no matter their volume, and also torpedoes (which is rather stupid but the whole issue of torpedoes in Il2 is rather crude).
There are only 2 cases of exceptions to these rules: some Italian bombs - the bombs called BombITxxxkg and the 2 new Russian Heavy bombs introduced with the Pe8 (FAB-2000 and FAB-5000)

[csvousden]

Well Thank you all very much, especially you, VP!  It is what it is and I love the detective work.  I will be happy with any fixes at all (or even none when the work needed to fix prevents the actual playing of the game)!

I did use your tbd fix to finagle a less than suitable fix on Doc's Beaufighters by stealing a CFDoMsh from the SAS Beaufighters, but it still leaves some goofy looking torpedos hanging loose on lots of other planes.

CV