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Author Topic: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA  (Read 55753 times)

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Dreamk

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Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
« Reply #108 on: December 20, 2015, 11:13:23 AM »

1) Few Morane Saulnier type N served in French escadrilles, mostly before 1916.

2) The first British Morane N were delivered to 3rd Squadron on September 18th, 1915 and a total of 24 planes were delivered in the following months, the last batch arriving in the third week of June 1916. They equipped No 60 and No 24 squadrons and saw their most intensive service in the summer of 1916. The type I, a type N equipped with an Alkan synchronizing gear and an 110Hp engine, began to be delivered to the British in July 1916 and was mainly used by No 60 squadron. they were withdrawn from the front in October 1916 - a very short operational lifespan. Only a few type I became operational in French service, apparently only for testing.
3) The Russian Type I (also called Type V) were delivered in October 1916 and arrived at the front when snow was already covering the ground and therefore equipped with skis.
No Morane N served with the Russian Air service N - Some Russian sources speak of both types N and I, but the IRAS operational data have been checked and show only type I with 110hp engine - the explanation may be the single type N completed by Duks company in a failed attempt to begin license production of the type in Russia - and this single aircraft was spinnerless.
A total of 12 Morane I served with the Russian air service.
No Morane N or I seems to have been used by the Soviets or the Whites, as this type was more that obsolete by end 1917, and was not fit for training or reconnaissance as were other obsolete types (the Russian Morane L kept being used till the mid 1920s in such roles).
The Russian Ace Ivan Smirnoff flew sucessfully a  Morane type I and won 2 victories in on this type, in the summer of 1917, against an Albatros type C and another two-seater (most of his victories were aboard a  Spad 7).

(As a general rule Russian sources must always be checked against wartime operational records and tables, that surprisingly are often available, and photographic evidence, as they have a marked tendency to freely "fill gaps of knowledge", a behavior that was also prevalent in the British sources of the 1960s, but situation improved there - in Russia,... it got worse. You have today a blossoming of so called "specialized publications" with colored graphics - a notable exception being Maslov, who has only B&W drawings but tries to stick to first hand historical sources, at the opposite of Kondratiev, Sheps and others)


 As a curiosity, Smirnoff was never shot down in the course of ww1 or the RCW (had only one inconclusive fight in the RCW as he already left Russia in December 1917), but was shot down by... the Japanese in March 1942 while piloting a Dutch DC-3 evacuation civilians from the Nederlandd Indies to Australia. He survived to serve for the rest of WW2 as a ...US Air Force transport pilot, returning to serve with KLM afterwar. Quite a life isn't it?!
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RealDarko

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Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
« Reply #109 on: December 21, 2015, 03:53:06 AM »

What will happen with the "N" for DBW? With no skinner will it be completed?
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Mission_bug

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Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
« Reply #110 on: December 21, 2015, 04:37:37 AM »

What will happen with the "N" for DBW? With no skinner will it be completed?


The N and all the other aircraft that we have shown in the thread are now all in slots and have been sent to Gio for a final test. ;)

When the thread is to be updated so you can add them to your installs is now up to him. 8)

The last three aircraft will be released with the textures that Gio made for them, someone will hopefully produce more skins once
the models are made available.

The two P models only have machine gun armament at the moment as I cannot find any photographs to indicate they carried bombs, not
even a Russian aircraft can be found and they seem to have added bombs to most of the Moranes. :o


Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
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Dreamk

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Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
« Reply #111 on: December 21, 2015, 11:40:36 AM »

The Morane P comported 2 variants - the MoS21, in 1916, with a 110Hp Le-Rhone 9J engine and the MoS26, in 1917, with the improved 120Hp Le Rhône 9JB. Most were used by the French.
The Mos21 had a large casserole spinner and the cowling of the N
The Mos26 had a full circular cowling and no spinner.

The British RFC also purchased no less than 142 MoS21, often replacing the original 110Hp engine by a 80Hp Le Rhone 9C due to a crisis in the delay of spares for the Rhone 110Hp (the French remaining deaf to the pleadings of the British war office - but to tell the truth, they themselves had serious problems with the production of the Le Rhone 9J and this led among other to the introduction of the Nieuport Ni21, here too with a 80Hp engine instead of the 110Hp engine of the Ni-17). This version was designated a posteriori MoS24 and had a small spinner. (MoS24 and not MoS23 as sometimes written - the MoS23 was an experimental 110Hp design, produced at the request of the RFC with only 2 machines being produced) By the beginning of 1917 all the Mos24 had been withdrawn form service, the supply of 110Hp Le Rhone having been renewed.

Only 10 machines served with the Russians, who called them Morane IV - they flew in the ranks of Kazakov's 19th squadron.
All their users used them exclusively as fighters. They appear to have been equipped with small spinners.
There is no certitude about the kind of engine they were equipped with (there was a chronic penury of Le Rhone engines in Russia).

BTW Not only the Russians, but also the British used the Morane L and LA also to drop bombs, for instance in an attack on Zeppelin sheds in Brussels in 1916 by 2 LA, and in a successful an air to air bombing against Zeppelin LZ37 on June 7, 1915.)

After ww1 Japan and Brazil used this plane.

Mos21 - the huge spinner was often discarded in service


Mos24

Mos26- it had very advanced looks






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Mission_bug

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Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
« Reply #112 on: December 23, 2015, 11:13:50 AM »

Hello guys, Gio is currently busy with real life issues and the festive season so has not had the chance yet to test the pack I sent to him but he has asked me to post that link into the thread. ;)

These packs contain all of the aircraft previewed in this thread so far up to and including the I and P early and late.

This is for use in DBW 1916 and DBW 1.71 it includes statics in the folder and their entries.



My previous links have been removed because the latest update has now been posted and supersedes any other links :


https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,49180.msg542849.html#msg542849



Please delete all previous versions of the pack and the entries for them as much has changed since the first link was posted, consider these a completely new install.

When Gio is able to add these links to the first post they will be removed.

There will I am sure be numerous fixes still needed for these aircraft but at least you now have the opportunity to test them and report back.

Wishing you all a very happy Christmas and New Year, Pete. 8)
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vpmedia

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Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
« Reply #113 on: December 23, 2015, 11:16:26 AM »

I started to work on the missing textures:

Type N skin



Cockpit parts wip

Mission_bug

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Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
« Reply #114 on: December 23, 2015, 11:39:11 AM »

Outstanding work as always Istvan, looking forward to you releasing them. 8)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
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RealDarko

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Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
« Reply #115 on: December 23, 2015, 01:08:18 PM »

Excellent work!! Can't wait to see those Imperial Russian skins for the N!
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Fresco23

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Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
« Reply #116 on: December 23, 2015, 07:13:49 PM »

Thanks Gio, Mission_bug, VP, and all others!!! So sorry to hear that you are leaving the project stalker. I enjoy your work.

Downloaded to test later.

Merry Christmas guys! Take care!
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Mission_bug

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Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
« Reply #117 on: December 24, 2015, 08:25:16 PM »

This pack was never made or intended for any version of HSFX.

I seperated the two aircraft you said were a problem and tried them in the only version of HSFX I have ever used HSFX-0.7 to see if that could cure the issue you were having with your particular version of HSFX, it took me nearly three days of hard work to get them going in that install and you were told what I did and sent any files that made that happen.

I do not mod HSFX, this site does not mod HSFX, I tried to do it for you, something I would not even have attempted for anyone else.

I say again, this pack was only ever intended for DBW 1916 and DBW 1.71, if it worked in anything else it was a bonus.

I do not have your version of HSFX, I never had and have no knowledge at all of what it takes to actually mod HSFX.

From what I read there is a very fine limit to just how many classfiles any HSFX install can have added on top of what the authors release, that is why I tested individual aircraft for you.

I am not and probably never will be a coder, I tinker at the very lowest level and usually manage to at least get things working.


Anyway, this is my last project, if there are any issues with it someone else can sort them out.

Take care

Pete.
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vpmedia

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Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
« Reply #118 on: December 25, 2015, 04:04:42 AM »

I updated the mod with new mat files and textures (all cockpits and some default skins) and removed ~250Mb unused files. There are also a few bmp skins for the Morane Type N and a Roland Garros pilot skin:

http://ulozto.net/xpHnVM1f/aircraft-moranesaulnier-h-and-l-model-family-7z

Thanks to everyone involved in making this pack, I really like it. :)

Cheers


Type L cockpit:

Whiskey_Sierra_972

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Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
« Reply #119 on: December 25, 2015, 09:15:07 AM »

A tought about plane behaviour harmonization....this is a general post , valid for all early WWI planes and not only for this package....

I was reading about the early stages of the war and I discovered some intresting facts:

- In early stages of flying discipline aerobatics was thought as dangerous
- Many fodders were caught of surprise and make mainly horizontal plain evasive manouvers

So I start to think that those pilots made act their crate more as a bomber than a fighter....

....what about look at the behaviour type of the early WWI planes to check their behaviour and maybe set them as:

TypeBomber for unarmed recce planes
TypeScout for armed recce planes
TypeTNBFighter for dedicated fighters

....this should be more like the real behaviour of that age....

....what do you think about?
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