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[SAS~Poltava]

Thanks for this detailed and precise run-though. And Good that you continue the experiment. It will be very helpful for us that want to get into CUP ourselves eventually! 

[SAS~Gerax]

Just to compare  :

my specs: 

Intel Core i7-4790K 4.00GHz (not overclocked)
Z97-G45 Mobo, 16GB DDR3 RAM, GeForce GTX980 4GB,
3840x2160 28'' Screen with G-SYNC (60Hz) Technology.

IL-2 graphic menu settings max,
Nvidia settings: 8xAF, 4xAA, 2xSupersample etc.

Edit: while preparing the conf.ini (its identical in both installs)
to paste it here I saw that I had LandGeom=2, so I redid
the tests with setting this to 3.

Here my conf.ini, when a expert detects some too strange settings please tell me. 

Code: [Select]

[Render_OpenGL]
TexQual=3
TexMipFilter=2
TexCompress=0
TexFlags.UseDither=0
TexFlags.UseAlpha=0
TexFlags.UseIndex=0
TexFlags.PolygonStipple=0
TexFlags.UseClampedSprites=0
TexFlags.DrawLandByTriangles=0
TexFlags.UseVertexArrays=0
TexFlags.DisableAPIExtensions=0
TexFlags.ARBMultitextureExt=1
TexFlags.TexEnvCombineExt=1
TexFlags.SecondaryColorExt=1
TexFlags.VertexArrayExt=1
TexFlags.ClipHintExt=0
TexFlags.UsePaletteExt=0
TexFlags.TexAnisotropicExt=1
TexFlags.TexCompressARBExt=1
TexFlags.TexEnvCombine4NV=1
TexFlags.TexEnvCombineDot3=1
TexFlags.DepthClampNV=1
TexFlags.SeparateSpecular=1
TexFlags.TextureShaderNV=1
HardwareShaders=1
Shadows=2
Specular=2
SpecularLight=2
DiffuseLight=2
DynamicalLights=1
MeshDetail=2
VisibilityDistance=3
Sky=2
Forest=2
LandShading=3
LandDetails=2
LandGeom=2 or 3
TexLarge=1
TexLandQual=3
TexLandLarge=1
VideoSetupId=17
Water=4
Effects=1
ForceShaders1x=0
PolygonOffsetFactor=-0.15
PolygonOffsetUnits=-3.0

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

CUP #WAW_pt20, no extra mods,
via jsgme: forg.Countries,
PAL MissPro, -MiniMap, stabs4all,
FPS 02 Smoke lite;
started from 256GB SSD:
 
Black-Death (LandGeom=2): avg: 52, max: 66, min: 17
Black-Death (LandGeom=3): avg: 49, max: 66, min: 13

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Modact 5.30 "ETO" for Europ.Theatre missions, campaigns;
heavily modded with extra planes, ships, tanks, objects etc etc.;
started from 1TB HD:

Black-Death (LandGeom=2): avg: 57, max: 68, min: 23
Black-Death (LandGeom=3): avg: 56, max: 67, min: 13

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

CUP #WAW_pt20 "stock": added this to have
a extra module for playing stock campaigns only,
most inis in std/objects folder are default 412;
started from 256GB SSD:

Black-Death (LandGeom=2): avg: 57, max: 66, min: 26
Black-Death (LandGeom=3): avg: 56, max: 66, min: 21

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Modact (default) 5.30 "enhanced" for playing stock campaigns only,
stock planes-, ships- etc inis only, but all available 3d fixes,
109er-, 190er-, P-47er-, A6M-Pack, HD defSkins, etc etc. added)
started from 1TB HD:

Black-Death (LandGeom=2): avg: 57, max: 66, min: 24
Black-Death (LandGeom=3): avg: 56, max: 67, min: 22

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In the Modact tests I had my own maps/objects pack with
HD-texs, -trees etc where available; some stock maps
replaced by Redkos, Cyberolas ones, etc.

in all tests I had the Log active.
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

had a few very short "stutters" when it comes
to expl.effects, the rest runs smoothly
in all tests with 3840x2160 screen res.

I'm sure I do not have the settings optimized,
but I am working hard to get rid of the stutters ..
but sadly I am no expert with this.   

Going to buy me a extra 512GB SSD next week,
will test MA5.30 from there then.

btw: many thanks to Mike (Storebror) for helping me
when I put together what to buy. 

[KiwiBiggles]

Nice machine Gerax! 

OK. Got to the first restore point, C.U.P.- Module 03 - World At War Pt10, and have a few interesting things to report.

C.U.P.--W.A.W level 10
(vanilla, no mods added, no JSGME options, instant logging disabled, flybys disabled)
Black Death: avg 34 FPS

There is a marginal reduction of 1 FPS over the last report (margin of error stuff) but that is far from the whole story.  I've watched dozens and dozens of ntrks of Black Death, and level 10 is far smoother than even level 8--whatever the FPS says.  GFX glitches with the rockets are gone, and the big explosion glitch at 1:10 is also gone (the explosion is a Sturmi crashing I figured out finally). When these big glitches have been happening, I don't believe the FPS counter is running, otherwise there surely should have been an FPS improvement now these glitches are fixed.  In fact, with the big explosion glitch at 1:10 the red FPS counter text would actually disappear from my monitor.

Still can't load missions on the Berlin map, which is pissing me off as it makes me think I've porked something, despite being very careful installing the modules.

Cannon's big Channel Map? Not happening any time soon I suspect. 

Here's the next interesting thing, I realised I hadn't yet enabled flybys in my conf.ini, so I went ahead and enabled them as per the C.U.P. Manual:

C.U.P.--W.A.W level 10
(vanilla, no mods added, no JSGME options, instant logging disabled, flybys enabled)
Black Death: avg 25 FPS

Flybys are costing 9 FPS in this install.  So, if you are running a scenario where FPS are marginal, like Black Death, I suggest disabling flybys like so:

[Mods]
RandomSplash=1
netCallsign=
ToggleMusic=1
FlybyFov=60.0
Flyby=0

Switch 'em back on if you're runnning a scenario where the FPS are sweet. 

On to the next restore point, parts 11 and 12.

Cheers
KB

[KiwiBiggles]

Latest benchmark fellas.  C.U.P. installed to the lastest W.A.W. level 20 restore point, including C.U.P. and W.A.W. JSGME restore points:

Stock Game
Black Death: avg 46 FPS

SAS Modact 5.3
(vanilla, no mods added, no JSGME options)
Black Death: avg 47 FPS

C.U.P.--W.A.W. level 20
(vanilla, no mods added, JSGME #WAW_02_DEF-SKIES enabled only, Flyby=0, instant logging enabled)
Black Death: avg 35 FPS
logfile.txt: 634KB

DEF-SKIES is enabled to compare apples with apples as much as possible--the C.U.P. skies cost about 1 FPS in this install.

The big news is instant logging.  At level 20 there is NO FPS loss due to instant logging, and compare the size of the logfile.txt from level 04 to level 20--from 10MB+ to just 634KB!!  That is some serious bug squashing by the C.U.P. team! 

The actual logfile is here: https://www.mediafire.com/view/041ia9np2mdmt4s/Logfile_CUP20_1246_16__2_7.rtf

Next, I'm going to have a look at the vehicle fixes proposed earlier in this thread.

Cheers
KB 

[KiwiBiggles]

Well, this isn't definitive, but I believe the issue with dead meshes has already been resolved by the C.U.P. team, as there don't appear to be any Blitz entries in my logfile, or really many entries referring to vehicles at all.  Most of the logfile entries pertain to ships and flight models...

Checking out Istvan's testing methodology next.

[KiwiBiggles]

Okie dokie, here are my assumptions and methodologies to test Istvan's proposal;

The key assumption is that the vehicles featured in the Black Death track are stock 1C Maddox German columns, so to keep things manageable I've limited my test to German Columns, comparing the stock columns in vanilla Modact 5.3 to C.U.P, all within the same install and with the same conf.ini settings etc.  (Note both Modact and C.U.P. have instant logging).

My methodology is to open the Balaton Summer (Balaton 1) map in FMB (Balaton being a 1C Maddox map). Move to a open area of grass texture and zoom to the 3rd level. Open the object viewer and add individual columns and observe the FPS (shift tab to console, type fps START SHOW [enter key])

Both Modact and C.U.P feature 20 columns.  My monitor's refresh rate is 60FPS. Here's the results:

Modact
=============


click image to embiggen to 1080p in PhotoBucket

Beginning with the "German Supply Car Column Type I": 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60.  You get the idea. 

C.U.P.
============


click image to embiggen to 1080p in PhotoBucket

Beginning with the "German Supply Car Column Type I": 48, 32, 30, 24, 60, 60, 25, 28, 25, 48, 23, 48, 26, 27, 24, 26, 25, 30, 30, 35...

Is this the cause of the Black Death FPS hit in C.U.P.?  It certainly looks like it could be...

My suggestion is to form a project team to "fix" just these columns initially, as a proof of concept.  My thinking is a folder structure of lower-poly 3do models (possibly extracted from the stock SFS files) and lower-resolution improved skins, let's say something similar to these models from 4.09 level with Istvan's skins:



If done carefully, perhaps it could even be done with the regular C.U.P. .ini files?  I imagine some SFS unpacking would be needed (not something I'm up-to-date on) to get at the stock 3do models, and see the solution as being a "HighFPS" JSGME switch to replace the regular high-poly/high-rez C.U.P. models.

What do you guys think???  I would be happy to contribute some time to the project.

In the meantime I'm gonna go have some fun flying the C.U.P. skies!!

[snoopy]

Hello KiwiBiggles,

i think this Fps reduction have to do with this car columns in CUP.
 But not only with the germans.
I set a Plane to a QMB allied scramble mission on the pacific island, press F2, start the engine, and move with the mouse around the airplane.
When the american car column comes on the screen,the prop disk, the canopy glass, disappears from the airplane.
The fps is 44-58 on this scenery.
On the same map, i set a QMB axis scramble mission, press F2, move with the mouse around the airplane, the japanese car columns comes on the screen,
the prop disc and canopy glass are not disappears from the plane. The fps is stable at 59-60.
This proplem is not only on the WAW module, its on the JTW module too.

In stock game or modact QMB pacific island scramble allied mission the prop disc and canopy glass are ok

Sorry for my bad english,
snoopy

[KiwiBiggles]

Hi Snoopy! 

Your English is fine.  Yes, I agree many of the vehicles in C.U.P. could be affected.  I've only chosen the German columns because they're the ones featured in Black Death, which is the popular benchmark.  If it proves feasible to create a  HighFPS option for the German columns, it would be good to do all the other columns, at least.

Your info about the Japanese and American columns is very useful.

KB

[vpmedia]

Here's a fix for the following vehicles, I hope it will work in CUP:

http://ulozto.net/x1AtyGs9/vehicles-new-wflyer-7z

Ba_10\
BA_6\
BCycle\
Chevrolet_FLATBED_US\
Chevrolet_MEDIC_US\
Chevrolet_RADIO_US\
DiamondT_US\
DUKW\
DUKW_WAT\
GAZ_55\
GAZ_55_W\
GAZ_Bus\
GAZ_Bus_W\
Ho-Ha\
LVT_2\
M16_summer\
M16_US_summer\
M16_US_winter\
M3_Empty\
M3_Halftrack\
M3A1_APC\
M8_Greyhound\
OpelBlitz36S\
OpelBlitz6700A_FUEL\
OpelBlitz6700A_MEDIC_summer\
OpelBlitz6700A_MEDIC_winter\
OpelBlitz6700A_RADIO\
OpelBlitz6700A_summer\
OpelBlitz6700A_winter\
OpelBlitzMaultier_desert\
OpelBlitzMaultier_summer\
OpelBlitzMaultier_winter\
OpelBlitzMaultierAA\
OpelBlitzMaultierAA_W\
OpelBlitzMaultierRocket\
OpelBlitzTextures\
OpelKadett\
RSO\
SdKfz251\
StudebeckerRocket\
StudebeckerTruck\
Tractor_US\
Type_94_Truck\
Type_95_Kurogane\
VW82_summer\
VW82_TENT_summer\
VW82_winter\
WillisMB_green\
WillisMB_snow\
WillisMB_TENT_camouf_US\
WillisMB_TENT_green\
WillisMB_TENT_snow\
WillisMB_TENT_US\
WillisMB_US\

I've choosen the above mentioned stock 3d/updated textures option for the following vehicles:

Bulldozer\
Bus\
DemagD7\
DemagD7_W\
DemagFlak\
DemagFlak_W\
FAIM\
GAZ_AA\
GAZ_AA_W\
GAZ_AAA\
GAZ_AAA_W\
GAZ67\
Katyusha\
M1_Black\
M1_Green\
M1_Green_DMG\
MaximeGAZ\
MaximeGAZ_W\
-SdKfz251\
SdKfz6\
SdKfz6_W\
SdKfz6Flak37\
SdKfz6Flak37_W\
Tatra_OA\
ZIS5_AA\
ZIS5_medic\
ZIS5_PC\
ZIS5_radio\
ZIS6_fuel\

I can do the fixes for these if my german vehicle fix works.

The problem is in the mat files only, the fix is simple:

tfDoubleSide 1 to 0
tfShouldSort 1 to 0
tfMipMap 1 to 0

[KiwiBiggles]

Thanks Istvan!  I'll test these tomorrow. 

KB

[KiwiBiggles]

Righto.  Packed Istvan's file into JSGME and called it #WAW_00_FPS VEHICLES_new_Wflyer, then ran some benchmarks.

I'll get the bad news out of the way first--in my install there was no observable improvement in FPS running Black Death.    I'll come back to this in a minute:

C.U.P.--W.A.W. level 20
(vanilla, no mods added, JSGME #WAW_02_DEF-SKIES + #WAW_00_FPS VEHICLES_new_Wflyer enabled only, Flyby=0, instant logging enabled)
Black Death: avg 35 FPS
logfile.txt: approx 600KB

As usual though, that's not the whole story.

Watching the track play, its VERY obvious that Istvan's file does fix bugs in the standard C.U.P. vehicles.  Some of the standard C.U.P. vehicles don't work correctly from far to mid to close (is LODs the correct term for this?)--as some of the vehicles gets closer to the camera they disappear momentarily and then reappear.  When the models reappear it's with the "close" model.  Apologies for my rubbish terminology--but I hope I've conveyed the idea.

Istvan's file fixes this, and the models stay smoothly in view as the camera zooms closer--they don't disappear in other words.  Given that these high-poly models stay in the frame for a longer period of time you could actually argue the frame rate has improved.

In the FMB, the story is a bit different.  Here are my frame rates for the 20 German columns in FMB: 50, 34, 47, 60, 60, 60, 60, 57, 48, 58, 21, 57, 60, 60, 60, 24, 22, 60, 60, 60

Obviously there is a major improvement there compared to the standard "un-fixed" C.U.P. columns (see above).  Because the stock 1C models are pegged at my monitor's refresh rate (60FPS) we can't really quantify the comparison between Istvan's fixes for the high quality models and the low-poly 1C models, but in my opinion Istvan's fixes are a MUST have for the high-poly option, based on these improvements. 

Even with Istvan's fixes, there appear to be three badly bugged models in C.U.P., common to the lowest performing columns:


Click to enlargify in PhotoBucket

The open and closed schwimmwagens, VW82 and VW82t have mis-matched textures (which appears to reduce some columns to around FMB 50 FPS in my install), but the main culprit in my opinion is the large half track, which I believe is OpelBlitzMaultier, and is common to the worst performing columns (around FMB 20FPS in my install) and in addition the OpelBlitzMaultier is visibly glitching.

Istvan, you may have different versions of these models in your install?  I remember you once said you don't have CUP installed.

So, going back to the Black Death FPS, C.U.P compared to Modact, I can think of four conclusions:

1. VW82, VW82t and OpelBlitzMaultier are still bugged, even with Istvan's file of fixes, and are still holding down the frame rate.

2. There are other vehicles in Black Death that we're not accounting for--remember I've only assumed that Black Death was made with German columns only, although it still seems a very reasonable assumption to me.

3. Because we can't really quantify the frame rate of the stock 1C models over and above my refresh rate, it could still be that the issue is high-poly count in the vehicles generally, in which case a low-poly solution should stay on the table.  I should probably add the stock models for VW82, VW82t and OpelBlitzMaultier next, for an early indication of any improvement?

4. This is the worst scenario--the frame rate in Black Death is being suppressed by something else altogether, not vehicles.

What do you guys think?

I'm considering pressing on with the low-poly vehicle switch.  I think the only way to rule it out as a solution is to complete the experiment and try it.

Istvan and WindWpn, do you know what's going on with the VW82, VW82t and OpelBlitzMaultier models in C.U.P.?  Anyone on the forum?

Cheers

KB 

[KiwiBiggles]

Sorry to say things aren't looking so good on the vehicle side of things.  I restored a large portion of the stock 3do files (cars, artillery, tanks, SPG, trains) but it didn't lift the frame rate a jot over 35.

Calling it a bust for now. 

Next step: benchmark texture compression, see how that goes.

KB