Topic: Dead.sim and object not 'dying' (Read 12729 times)

Mission_bug · « **Reply #24 on:** February 18, 2016, 04:25:08 AM »

Hello again Eugene, as I already said it is possible to use the shadow from another object , however, with the block of flats in our discussion there is a issue.

Here is the block 'MAPFRE' from the repaint max did, it uses the data as suggested by WxTech:

As you see there is no shadow and that is because the object has two textures applied to it which is why I said you really
need a 3D programme of some sort because to get the shadow you need to re-map the object with just a single texture.

In this shot I opened up the object and simply did that, re-mapped it with a single texture then extracted the mesh and used
the data then as suggested by WxTech posting the relevant parts of the mesh text into the shadow portion of the object:

There might be ways around that but I have not found any yet so the borrowing method only works as far as I know if the
object you take the shadow from and the one you add it to each use a single texture and then they obviously need to be
something similar.

So if all those high rise blocks are the same with two textures then each of them will have to be opened and re-mapped
to enable you to get a shadow.

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

SAS~Malone · « **Reply #25 on:** February 18, 2016, 04:35:00 AM »

ah- okay -Pete, yes, i think the two textures used are one for the sides, and one for the roof.
i don't know if there's any way around that...
meanwhile, i'm downloading Gimp version 2.8.16....is that okay for these purposes, do you know?

Mission_bug · « **Reply #26 on:** February 18, 2016, 01:25:27 PM »

Quote from: SAS~Malone on February 18, 2016, 04:35:00 AM

ah- okay -Pete, yes, i think the two textures used are one for the sides, and one for the roof.
i don't know if there's any way around that...
meanwhile, i'm downloading Gimp version 2.8.16....is that okay for these purposes, do you know?

Hello Eugene, Gimp is essentially a drawing programme that is used for making skins not any use for 3D work unfortunately only doing the
textures for it.

I have been trying most of the day to get the hit box working in the skyscrapers sadly without much success, I did too much trial and error
for me to try and explain what I was doing, suffice to say the best I managed at one point was a collision part way up the building and
vehicles bumping into it.

If you try to make a hit box the same size as the building the object dissapears so at best it seems a small area at lower level could be used
if the buildings are set up correctly. Being able to impact that size of building all the way up does not seem possible, maybe it was never intended
to be used above a certain height, anyway I have had enough I am not going there again, sorry.

The best I can do is give you a entry for the shadows, it seems once I had mapped a single skyscraper with just one texture it was then possible to
use that as the shadow on all the skyscrapers in Max's pack not just that single one, just add this at the bottom of each mesh text:

Code: [Select]

[ShVertices_Frame0]
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//75 verts

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//28 faces

At least this improves the immersion factor along with Max's stunning artwork.

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

SAS~Malone · « **Reply #27 on:** February 19, 2016, 12:21:00 AM »

Pete, okay - i thought Gimp might be a 3d proggie, which would be a completely new kettle of fish for me...
i use Photoshop for many years now, and am very familiar with it, if it can do the job required, then great.
i have two versions running on my pc atm, CS5 and CC2014.
the shadows are great! a huge improvement looks-wise.
don't worry about the hitbox thing any more - if i can get someone else to have a look at it at some point, i will, but even for me, this is not a high priority atm.

i do have one little extra request for you, and this concerns human figures.
we really need a decent figure in a regular sitting position - just a generic will be fine, texturing can then be done by myself or anyone else - what i hope for here, is to have a sitting figure that i can then add to vehicles, such as trucks with troops sitting in the back, and even on some other vehicles and ships, these would come in very handy.
the only sitting figure we have atm is the old stock IL-2 human, which really isn't on par with the newer figures.
i'll do the work of adding them to trucks and such for us all to enjoy, once we have the figure.
if there's already such a figure, i missed it - don't think i've seen one, though....
anyway, that will officially be my last request from you, as you really have already gone above and beyond...

SAS~Malone · « **Reply #28 on:** February 19, 2016, 12:59:07 AM »

arr.....okay, need a little more info re: shadows.
i tried adding the shadow info you provided to one of the skyscrapers, with no result.
here is the mesh file as i currently have it - is there something wrong with how i added the shadow info, or any other glaring mistake?

Code: [Select]

[Common]
NumBones 0
FramesType Single
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[LOD]
5000

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techo

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48 49 50
51 52 53
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//28 faces

; eof

maybe if you post up your mesh as it is, and i can work from that?
signed
pesky one

WxTech · « **Reply #29 on:** February 19, 2016, 02:06:02 AM »

Malone,
At first blush things look OK to me in that file.

But... The surface normals are weird. Many read something like "0, 0, 0.1" I'm surprised the game doesn't throw up all kinds of errors. This *may* have no bearing on shadow creation, but I'm not at all certain.

Surface normals must always have the three values such that the sum of their squares equals 1.0, or reasonably close to that. If two vectors are zero, the third must be 1 or -1. These values are the sin or cosine of the angle of the vector (usually) perpendicular to the surface with respect to the X, Y and Z axes.

Such simple buildings as these 'boxes' are a good way to get familiar with surface normals. I first used a plain house with A-frame roof to teach myself this. For a simple 5-sided (the 6th is the invisible floor inside, and is not defined) box, all surface normals will be variants of
1 0 0
0 1 0
0 0 -1

etc., etc.

Sketch out a 3-D box shaped like your building, figure out the axis directions, and identify the various vertices. In conjunction with the 3-digit face groups, you can easily ascertain which gang of verts make a common surface. Note the axis perpendicular to that surface, then assign either a 1 or a -1 to either the X, Y or Z slot, as approprite. The other two slots will be zero.

With a little patience it will all fall neatly into place.

When I make my gunsights, because I use excel I manually calculate all surface normals. I could write formulae to do the job, I suppose, but it would be more involvment than I'm currently willing to suffer. I can figure them out fast enough to keep me from going too crazy.

SAS~Malone · « **Reply #30 on:** February 19, 2016, 02:46:27 AM »

hi Wx
i'm afraid i can't agree with your findings on the normals.
i've been doing a LOT of work with meshes over the last few weeks, and by far the most common set of these i encounter look as follows:

1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1

so, i find a lot more with 3 zero's than with 2....
i don't really know the in's and out's of this stuff, just reporting on what i found in my tinkering so far....

WxTech · « **Reply #31 on:** February 19, 2016, 08:06:51 AM »

Malone,
That example of 9 digits you supplied is the coordinate transformation matrix. This tells the engine how to orient an object with respect to the model's global coordinate system. When the object is made so that it's nicely orthogonal to its 3-D grid, any re-orientation will likely be in multiples of 90 degrees, hence the tidy series of 1s and 0s. But if any rotation is to be made where the angle(s) is/are not multiples of 90 degrees, the matrix becomes populated with some number of non-zero values between -1 and 1.

If the surface normals define a condition whereby the sum of the three values squared is not near to 1, the lighting must necessarily behave oddly. The shadows will be fine, for their location on the ground is determined solely by the Sun's position. But the shading and specular components for the object's surfaces will be not as expected. I once had a load failure because of a Java error that reported a discordant surface normal. And I don't recall it as having been as bad as a 0.1 in conjunction with a pair of zeros (where, again, that 0.1 should be 1.0--if indeed those zeros are correct.)

The surface normals are the group of 3 numbers at the end of 6 values which define a vertex for a polygon to be texture mapped, and are present for every vertex.

The coordinate transformation matrix appears only once for an entire object, usually in a .him file.

SAS~Malone · « **Reply #32 on:** February 19, 2016, 08:12:54 AM »

okayyy.....

....well, you're clearly more clued up than i am about how all this stuff works, lol
in the case of these skyscrapers, or at least the example Pete's shown, with the shadows looking great, i guess i'll have to wait for him to get back on that....
i honestly wouldn't know where to start with trying to figure out what it should look like...

western0221 · « **Reply #33 on:** February 19, 2016, 08:25:26 AM »

About shadows, in my experience, 'static' objects like a building show different behavior to other stationary objects or moving aircrafts / ships / tanks / vehicles.

IL-2 1946's msh format has main visual mesh section and shadow mesh section in each LODs.
Stationary or moving objects use shadow mesh section to draw its shadow on the ground / sea water in each LODs. Shadow mesh has to be made in simple shapes, light 3D data.
But static objects use main visual mesh as shadow mesh, too. When we provide simple mesh data for shadow section, it becomes ignored. But But But, when we don't prepare shadow mesh section to static object, it doesn't show its shadow.
So, shadow mesh section is not used, but needed for static object.
It is one of strange mysteries on IL-2 1946.

SAS~Malone · « **Reply #34 on:** February 19, 2016, 08:44:44 AM »

guys, sorry - once again, i must apologise for my own stupidity when giving feedback here....

the shadow info Pete provided works perfectly well, as i found once i discovered that i had another, older set of skyscrapers that were loading before these ones i've been editing.
i totally forgot that i had those already, and just went ahead and installed Max's repaints, without checking first - and these repaints are ones i already got from Max some time ago.
for some silly reason, i saw the word 'repaints' and thought they were new, but they are the same as the old repaints i already had.
as the older ones were loading before these, even though these are loading separately from the static list, they are in effect just the old ones being loaded twice.
once i realised this, i removed the 'older' ones, and hey presto! - the shadows are now working as they should.
Wx, Pete - sorry for the runaround, guys. i'll be sure not to make this same mistake again.
in fact, i'm going to take the 'old' duplicates, give them new skins, and apply shadows to them as well

max_thehitman · « **Reply #35 on:** February 19, 2016, 09:48:11 AM »

Very interesting development in these posts. Thank you everyone for your very useul information, and
thank you also for adding teh shadows to those old model Skyscrapers. The cities will now look much more
realistic in everyones maps.

I never added the shadows because many months ago I did not know how to do this. Now I know. Thank you.
I also did not include a "dead skin" for the skyscrapers because there was no destroyed 3d-model for them,
but I have some skins already prepared to include in a future update to these skyscrapers if anyone is
able to create a "dead/destroyed version" for them.

I still find it very dificult for me in working with a 3d-model program, so its best I dont touch it for awhile and
mess things up,
and just concentrate on my best abilities which is painting the 3d-models.
That is the problem of getting old and grey.

Our brain cannot handle so much information , let alone the knowledge
of trying to learn how to use a new 3d-model program ! - Photoshop is already a huge task.

Please continue gentleman,
your doing some incredible work here and very good 3d-art. I admire your artistic style! I am also your FAN!

Author Topic: Dead.sim and object not 'dying' (Read 12729 times)

Mission_bug

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SAS~Malone

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Mission_bug

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SAS~Malone

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WxTech

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SAS~Malone

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WxTech

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SAS~Malone

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western0221

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SAS~Malone

Re: Dead.sim and object not 'dying'

max_thehitman

Re: Dead.sim and object not 'dying'