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[Captain Dawson]

Hello chaps,

I'm in the market for a new computer, as my laptop can't handle pretty much anything much less IL-2. I was looking for some for the museum before, but I want a computer for me now!

As for how I will use it, I hope to use a new computer for making and watching videos, surfing the internet, playing Kerbal Space Program (How else can I go to the Moon?) and of course playing IL-2 1946. I may try out BoS and BoM later, who knows.

I've been using sub-par pcs and laptops all my life, so I'd like to go with something high quality. (without breaking the bank) I want to be able to run IL-2 1946 not only in perfect mode and cranked up graphics, but also with DECENT fps with more than 100 planes. KSP is also graphics intensive, but anything that runs IL-2 well should be plenty for any of my other programs.

Now, I'm willing to go for a laptop or desktop, whichever kind has the best performance for my money. Of course, If I buy a desktop, I'll need to buy a good screen as well... I really want to keep it below $800 or $900.

These were from threads talking about my request for a laptop for the museum where I volunteer:

If however you want to see smooth gameplay and not just perfect mode, but maxed out settings all around, then you need something with more than 10.000 3D Mark 06 points, that's for instance a GPU like the following:
From the 600 family a GTX660M or better (the tenths digit counts, the higher the better)
From the 700 family a GT750M or better
From the 800 family a GTX850M or better
From the 900 family a GTX950M or better (maybe a GTX940M will do, but not sure).

And this:

What should be the requirements (if any) for CPUs? Is i5 series good enough, or do we need i7 series?

Now that we're talking about Notebook processors, the answer cannot just be one or the other, it depends.
Notebook CPUs have many specs to take into account for the one thing that counts for IL-2:
Single Thread Performance.
This is all that counts, nothing else.
You can see a chart showing how different CPUs perform on single thread operation here:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

Aynthing below 1800 points won't make you happy with IL-2 on large missions, so you should really take a look what CPU precisely is working in that laptop of your choice and check it's single thread performance from the above given list first.

So there's a few things I'm wondering.

Storebror has said to get a GPU above Nvidia GTX 950 from the 900 family, and a CPU above 1800 points for single thread performance on this page: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html in order to get good performance. I've seen that a lot of folks here have 960s, and I've also seen quite a few CPUs under 1800 points on single thread performance. So here's a question:

Which is more important? CPU or GPU? Of course I need both and can't sacrifice one for the other, but I also ain't paying $2,000 for a computer! How important is CPU as it relates to GPU and vise-versa?

What's the better value, laptop or desktop, given the same specs and the added price of a monitor to the desktop.

What brands have the best value, performance, and longevity?

A lot of questions at once, feel free to quote and answer whichever ones you know...


A few examples of what I'm talking about...
So we have this with a 2126 point single thread performance CPU, but a GTX 950 for less $...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883230094

...and this with a GTX 1060 and 1947 point CPU... (How much better is the GTX 1000 series?...)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883230155

...and this one with a GTX 960 AND 2130 point CPU... AND IT COSTS MOAR MONEY 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883227623
And you get the idea.

These are just examples, if anyone has suggestions for a desktop or laptop, please post.

So many companies, so many computers, how do I know how to choose!?
Any help would be appreciated, Thanks!

[VF19_Congo]

These are the only decent gaming laptops I'm aware of:

https://www.msi.com/Laptops#?tag=GT-Series

If you browse thru the series categories, you'll find the bargains, they aren't always
on the first page.

There are a few other brands that run similar specs, some are cheaper,
but the MSI's ROCK ! 

Great cooling, latest tech, they are expensive-ish.

Laptops come with pre-set options that are difficult to upgrade, the MSI laptops are
upgradeable with pre-set options.

There is a large and confusing range of models, but one will offer good specs and a cheaper price,
it's a complex choice with MSI.

You can buy the bits and assemble a good PC for half that price,
and still have as good as or better performance than the MSI laptop.

With NVidia gaming cards, the second digit is the important one, or
was until recently as the numbers went thru 1000.

so.....the 60 series..... 460, 560, 660, 760, 860, 960, 1060 are the minimum decent gaming cards,
the 50 series doesn't hack it as far as I'm concerned.

CPU is important, GPU is important. You aim for matched (max) performance.

The general deal when you buy a pre-built is that you almost always get nasty
surprises later on after purchase, with components chosen for cost, not functionality.
Custom made and you can pretty much do whatever you like with it if you get good
core components.

The last couple of links you gave look like good specs, but you start looking at
hard drive speed and capacity, whether that particular video card is bottlenecked etc.
The devil is in the detail, and it takes a bit of research into these products to really
understand exactly what you are getting.

My main concern is a good motherboard personally, but if everything you buy is
good quality, you'll be very happy with it.

If you look at the MSI laptops, they are all ready to go, with good components,
large screens, adequate cooling (important with a laptop) and expansion capability,
so, they are a good option, but quite a bit more money.

[LuseKofte]

BOS is working better in all terms for medium performance pc, but a laptop? I do not know.
I am looking myself, I just cannot decide if I shall go for VR or not. VR means newest GPU , no VR means cheaper GPU.
BOS got good effect of being installed on a SSD disk t use quite a bit CPU also, but this should improve when it convert to DX 11, they say.
I for one would not spend my money on a laptop, it got cooling issues when it comes to simulators

[DougW60]

I too would recommend looking at a PC versus a laptop unless you plan on traveling with it. Cost to performance ratio heavily favors a PC and can be updated easily.

I am confused as to why many people are "locked" into nVidia for a GPU. I think you are limiting your options - AMD has the RX 480 (Polaris GPU) out for approx. $225 (U.S. dollar) that performs very well compared to much more expensive nVidia GPUs.

I encourage you to take time to research all options for your computer and not base your decisions on what others say.  It is your computer for what you want and price range.  Tom's Hardware website has articles regarding each component you will need for a PC as well as example builds if you consider building one.  And if you just want to buy, it helps with understanding each component and how they work as a system.  This may answer your question regarding CPU or GPU priority.

Just keep in mind that your system will be as fast as your slowest part.

[western0221]

If you have enough room space to set desktop (middle tower) PC, that is the best instead of note PC for 3D gaming.

[VF19_Congo]

I am confused as to why many people are "locked" into nVidia for a GPU.

In the past, I got soured by ATI's driver support record, but that's history.
Now I avoid ATI only because I'm not familiar with the driver options, which I can
control and recommend and fix on NVidia. With ATI, I install the driver software
and heaven knows what else, and I don't know how to control it or keep it streamlined
to "driver only" functionality. If ATI is as good for driver customization then great!

NVidia have gotten worse for extra software, but at least I can easily switch the automation
and software options off at the point of install.

Another thing is form factor, ATI often have "cards in a box", which I avoid, so do NVidia,
but it seems like many more NVidia cards come with great cooling solutions, which is important.
The open style cooling fans are large and run low rpm, where the box style fan is small and high rpm.
The box style strives to exit hot air from the rear of the PC, the open style benefits from good
case cooling.

Cost to performance ratio heavily favors a PC and can be updated easily.

Absolutely !

You can hand pick every component in a desktop, match it all up and get real bang for buck.
It will still be more expensive than a cheap off the shelf build, but you'll get a nice rig instead
of a potential lemon. First thing you pick is a power supply that won't burn your house down

[DougW60]

Thanks for the reply VF,  for me, when someone ask for advice I try to not dictate to them what they should buy based solely on my opinion. That is why I advised Cpt. D to do his own homework.  Guide him where to go and ask questions to him to help him look at specifics to his wants for the PC/Laptop.

The best mentors I had never answered my questions.  They would ask me questions that led me to the answers thus forcing me actually think through the problem. Giving answers omits the thinking process.

[LuseKofte]

Well ultimately it is his own responsibility. But you are off the track here. He is looking for advise based on experience, it is not a learning prosess. Due to space limitations some years ago I bought expensive laptops for IL 2. And they cost big money back then, only to see they could not keep up after 2 years with no possibilities for upgrade.
So I do not recommend Laptop, mostly because I found buying two laptops in 4 years are more expensive than 1 stationary in 7 years +
Now a mediocre Laptop PC can run IL 2 but it will overheat when flying BOS , and it will not last running on turbo.
So I currently have a 7 year old computer with only one upgrade a new gtx 680 some years ago and shipment of two gtx and a SLI bridge to a mate in this community. I can upgrade it further for 4  to 6 years for half the cost of a new one.
This is simply not like education , this is a person genuinely interested in other peoples experience

[DougW60]

Luse,  that is why I also recommended looking at a PC versus a Laptop. Guiding someone to a website where information is provided that would ultimately help him decide his choices is not off track.  Too often we tend to believe that we want something now and therefore we must have it now.  Taking time to research ultimately provides a more sound long-term solution.  For my last two builds, 2009 and 2016, I spent approximately 18 months each to determine what I ultimately built.  My 2009 build worked very well with a single GPU upgrade until this year.  I'm not saying everyone should spend that much time but encouraging someone to research will help him now and for the future.

[Captain Dawson]

Sorry for the late reply folks, I was busy moving to another state the last few days.

These are the only decent gaming laptops I'm aware of:

https://www.msi.com/Laptops#?tag=GT-Series

There are a few other brands that run similar specs, some are cheaper,
but the MSI's ROCK ! 

Most of what I've been looking at for laptops have been MSI. I agree with you on this. But the more I search around the internet, the more I start to lean towards a desktop.

I too would recommend looking at a PC versus a laptop unless you plan on traveling with it. Cost to performance ratio heavily favors a PC and can be updated easily.

If you have enough room space to set desktop (middle tower) PC, that is the best instead of note PC for 3D gaming.

You can hand pick every component in a desktop, match it all up and get real bang for buck.
It will still be more expensive than a cheap off the shelf build, but you'll get a nice rig instead
of a potential lemon.

I agree.  I rarely bring my old laptops anywhere now, so It's not like I would lose much by having a stationary desktop. Desktops last longer and have generally better specs for a given price from what I've seen.

The best mentors I had never answered my questions.  They would ask me questions that led me to the answers thus forcing me actually think through the problem. Giving answers omits the thinking process.

Good point! In my case though, I don't really know a whole lot about computers apart from what I've read on SAS. I understand CPU GPU and how they affect IL-2 individually, but as for what combinations are the best, I would need some help with that.

Well ultimately it is his own responsibility. But you are off the track here. He is looking for advise based on experience, it is not a learning prosess. This is simply not like education , this is a person genuinely interested in other peoples experience

In this case, I would like to hear about everyone's experiences with PCs as well. At least in the sense of what has worked best for people, what I should avoid, etc.

I am confused as to why many people are "locked" into nVidia for a GPU. I think you are limiting your options - AMD has the RX 480 (Polaris GPU) out for approx. $225 (U.S. dollar) that performs very well compared to much more expensive nVidia GPUs.

Not locked into NVidia, just don't know how to compare them to AMD to find the best value. And on that note...

I encourage you to take time to research all options for your computer and not base your decisions on what others say.  It is your computer for what you want and price range.  Tom's Hardware website has articles regarding each component you will need for a PC as well as example builds if you consider building one.  And if you just want to buy, it helps with understanding each component and how they work as a system.  This may answer your question regarding CPU or GPU priority.

Just keep in mind that your system will be as fast as your slowest part.

Looking at Tom's Hardware now...
I like the idea of choosing the components in order to get the maximum performance for a lower price than a similar one already assembled.

I guess what I'm really asking then is, what specs would you guys suggest? Of course I know that they would all depend on each other, but how do I know what each component should be combined with to avoid shortchanging the performance or overpaying?

[LuseKofte]

In my point of view it is up to you.
Are you going to play DCS , P3D , and BOS? want max settings? or satisfied with medium settings?
For all maxed out , I recommend for ordinary resolution a GTX 970 minimum , if you use high resolution to VR devices 1080 or Titan. Also BOS do very well installed on a SSD disk
It all depends on your ambitions and what you can afford.
I have a GTX 680 myself with a lazy 2,8 ghz i7 CPU . I survive in DCS and BOS and a little X plane 10. I am fine with its performance .

[Captain Dawson]

Well, I listed a bit of my planned uses for it at the beginning of the thread, but basically I want max settings on IL-2 and at least 20 fps. As for other sims, I'm not planning on using anything other than IL-2 1946 as of yet. Maybe later I'll go to DCS and BoS when I have more time on my hands.

I have a GTX 680 myself with a lazy 2,8 ghz i7 CPU . I survive in DCS and BOS and a little X plane 10. I am fine with its performance .

How about with IL-2 1946? Can you get good performance at max settings?

I'm looking to pay less than $800 total and obviously I want to get the best I can for around that price. Can you guys just throw out some additional suggestions for specs given my uses, like a good GPU and CPU and what will work well with them? I could figure out stuff like this by myself with research, but first I want to learn everyone's suggestions from their experiences.