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[Birdman]

I want to say hello as a former IL-2 modder and buxfixer and Thank You a lot for all the work with BAT, especially that Java wall fix!

I've long used my heavily customized DBW install only and tried to keep it updated with all the interesting new WW2 era planes, but as a plane collector it was constant fighting against the Java wall. In the end I couldn't really fly anymore with FPS issues near airfields and over cities with my 4K resolution, and any stuttering below 60 FPS really messes up my head. I didn't want to disable too many nice planes to get flyable FPS, so I pretty much lost interest in old IL-2.

Now with Java wall fixed in BAT I should obviously start using BAT instead of my custom DBW, but there's lots of issues I have to fix before I can fully enjoy BAT and get everyting better than in my custom DBW:
- I'm just too used to old planelist order, so I'll likely have to reorder air.ini somewhat to find all the planes and write my own custom plane.properties with more consistent naming without annoying shortened names that don't look too nice on 4K screen. Or is some alternative plane.properties already available that I might like?
- I don't really like frankenplanes and prefer to keep them hidden until proper 3D model exist. Thus, I'll likely mark them in naming and hide most of them with NOQUICK, but that's easy and better than not having them installed at all now that Java wall isn't there anymore.
- I want to use WAW as the major module and I'd like to add some more planes there for more what-if fun. Is there any easy way to add planes from TGA or JTW to WAW or do I have to install them as complete mods to #WAW3 folder? I need some more early planes like I-15 and I also want to have fun with F-84, F-86, F9F, MiG-15 and other early jets against Luftwaffe 1946 planes.
- I have to check for missing planes and updates and add lots of my own fixes that were included in DBW or just remained unreleased hidden in my custom DBW. I know I have lots of very useful fixes because I used to fix some bugs in almost every plane while testing them in my custom DBW, and in some cases I worked a lot more like major collision fixes or FM updates. Than I'll likely fix a lot more bugs while testing BAT, and I need some good way for sharing those fixes and hopefully get them included in next version. I hope others can also enjoy these fixes and I could keep my BAT less customized and easier to update. I know this is a lot of work and I'll have to work as an active member of BAT development team to make BAT better for all. Then we'll also need some way to prevent other updates from overwriting all the fixes without including the fixes so that I wouldn't have to fix the same old bugs too many times.
- I have to set up my SFS extractor and FM tools again to work well with BAT, so hopefully that's not too difficult. Obviously I need them a lot because I really enjoy fixing bugs more than flying. I may well spend the rest of evening tuning FM when I find something funny during my first test flight of some interesting plane. Unfortunately, I'm not up-to-date with latest modding tool development, so I hope to get some help there to avoid manually updating all LOD values or testing top speed, for example, if there's some new tools for those.
- Will that Java wall fix in plane classfiles get messed up if I install too many old versions as separate mods? Missing planes added as mods and other updates like Barnesy's 3D reworks contain old style classfiles, so will that cause too much issues? I hope I could work together with SAS~Storebror to get updated classfiles when needed or maybe I'll just have to customize Barnesy's 3D to work with BAT classfiles by removing updated pilots and restoring hier.him entries for stock pilots. I know 3D files and FMs well but I still haven't worked with classfiles at all or used 3D modeling software. Maybe I should try to start fixing java and use 3D software for hitbox fixes instead of MATLAB and text editor, but I need some help to get started with those.
- I'll really need some way to report which planes I've tested and fixed or found to have some major issues. Should I use this thread as bug, wish and fix list or is there some better option? I have lots of real fixes to share, but also bug reports like outdated cockpits, odd FM, missing hitboxes, messy damage models and other issues I can't instantly fix but hopefully someone could work on. Hopefully I could have some list of fixes and known issues somewhere so that modders could notify when they're fixed.
- I'm a bit worried about FMs, so I hope to know more about how they're chosen in BAT. Are they just some random versions or properly tested or from stock game or some other version whenever possible? Has anyone looked at IL2Compare data to spot obvious issues yet? Has anyone tuned FMs for BAT or are they just original FMs released with mods or from other sources? I've tried to be careful with my custom DBW to avoid clearly incorrect FMs, but that familiar set of FMs isn't easily usable in BAT.

Some examples of issues I found within the first hour of exploring BAT:
- Seafury has old half-franken 3D, so I have to install the updated 3D I enjoy in my DBW a lot.
- I can't find Spiteful that's one of my favourite planes and works well in my DBW.
- Center position and VisibilitySphere settings of many planes are messed up so that browsing planes in QMB is annoying. Those are among the first things I usually fix when installing planes to my DBW, so I'll have to add those fixes to BAT also. Unfortunately, I'll have to move cockpit center positions and sometimes even adjust GC_Gear_Shift in FM, so all those have to stay together to successfully add the fixes to next BAT version. With proper support from BAT team I could even fix Yak-7 center position that's been off forever.
- Skyraider welcomed me with tilted ordnance bug, so that's one of my bug fixes to add. There's likely hundreds of other fixes I have to add back, many of them just because I forgot to release them.
- Old Bf 109 bugs are back like wrong mortar hook positions and incorrect nose MG position in some G6-G14. Looks like I'll have to rework those once more.

Anyway, that's just some first impressions. I know I haven't read documentation and known issues, so some of my questions may be silly. I'm just beginner with BAT now after using my custom DBW only for last few years. I hope I can work together with others to make BAT better for all with the good things from my custom DBW included. I have lots of work to do before I won't miss my good old DBW anymore, but that Java wall fix should finally be enough motivation for me to find all the fixes hidden in my DBW and release them for all BAT users.

[Gubi]

Cheers.  "I live in my DBW"...for many of the same reasons...  Last Sunday/Monday...loaded and installed BAT in the chat, on live TV.  Worked like a charm.  Looked through it.  So many things I don't have in my DBW...but, oh man...the things that I do have...  Well, you know...that makes for great discussion...and so on...  Back to DBW.  Prost.

[Unca-Fester]

I've been living in my DBW/UP3/DBW '16 mod over the last year just because of all the interesting single plane releases.  I've also tinkered with the colors and edges of the shoreline in the Channel maps to mimic the clumps of seaweed and other debris in the water's edge where the tidewater starts. 

Must return to the BAT cave and download..

 

[Vampire_pilot]

Hi Birdman, welcome to B.A.T.

It's good to hear that old interests are sparked again.

- I'm just too used to old planelist order, so I'll likely have to reorder air.ini somewhat to find all the planes and write my own custom plane.properties with more consistent naming without annoying shortened names that don't look too nice on 4K screen. Or is some alternative plane.properties already available that I might like?

Of course you can customize your plane list and plane.properties to your liking, the files are in the open.

I want to use WAW as the major module and I'd like to add some more planes there for more what-if fun. Is there any easy way to add planes from TGA or JTW to WAW or do I have to install them as complete mods to #WAW3 folder? I need some more early planes like I-15 and I also want to have fun with F-84, F-86, F9F, MiG-15 and other early jets against Luftwaffe 1946 planes.

This one is a bit trickier. Of course I-15 are in WAW as well. But there's no easy way to merge two eras, they are handled seperately on the SFS side of things. You will have to install these kind of jet aircraft separately.
On the other hand, you can "acctivate" all stock aircraft in JTW by soimply adding tehir lines in the air.ini. Stock content is always available.

And YES, if you install a ton of not "java-wall-prepared" java classes, the java wall effect will catch on again.

I'm a bit worried about FMs, so I hope to know more about how they're chosen in BAT. Are they just some random versions or properly tested or from stock game or some other version whenever possible? Has anyone looked at IL2Compare data to spot obvious issues yet? Has anyone tuned FMs for BAT or are they just original FMs released with mods or from other sources? I've tried to be careful with my custom DBW to avoid clearly incorrect FMs, but that familiar set of FMs isn't easily usable in BAT.

Mods, We take them as they make them -  we usually take the mod and integrate it as it is, we do not rework each and every mod, aside from compatibility prep-work and necessary bug fixes. The same goes for FMs, these are taken straight from the mods usually.

I don't really like frankenplanes and prefer to keep them hidden until proper 3D model exist

Of course not every mod created is up to "official" standards! But that's alright for me! As a player and missioneer, I am happy for all the mods people create, even if they are Frankens or sometimes have other limitations owed to the limitations of the modders. Not everyone is a pro in every segment and not everyone has your approach: I for one cherish every Franken we have, people have invested some time and love into it to their best abilities to fill a gap. I do not look down on any of these mods. Eventually somebody, someday will pick it up and improve, it's happened over the years, it's a slow process.
Nobody is forced to use them after all

If you want to dive into providing fixes and upgrades for mods in BAT, be my guest and come talk to me directly at any time, I will send you a PM