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[SAS~Storebror]

Just go ahead and make it "more realistic".
As for the posting restriction, it only applies to the very first post.

I believe whoever interested in digging out the real Hellcat performance knows what I was talking about

I "suspect" you don't want to suggest I wasn't interested


Mike

[elpotro]

Talking about aircraft performances, maybe this will contribute something.
In 1990, flying tests of P-47, F6F-5, F4U-1D and P-51D were conducted. In the “Sport Aviation” magazine of June 1990 there is an article about the results. If anyone is interested, here you can view and download the PDF with the scan: https://drive.proton.me/urls/XWEM6ZP3F0#9U60NFQ8F9Tc

Introduction of article:

"During World War II, the United States introduced four new fighter designs produced by four separate manufacturers: the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt, the Vought F4U/FG-1D Corsair, the Grumman F6F Hellcat, and the North American P-51 Mustang. These fighter designs introduced in the early 1940s have become legendary. Many Army Air Corps, Navy and Marine pilots became aces at their controls. Much has been written, and even more said, concerning the exploits of these famous aircraft. Today, more than 45 years since these aircraft entered combat squadrons, the facts and myths of their capabilities are blurred together as memories fade and the few remaining examples of these former warriors are preserved by museums and aviation enthusiasts. Flight time on these aircraft is usually limited to public air show exhibitions and, in deference to the aging airframes and scarcity of engines and parts (not to mention their cost), they are normally operated well within their original design limits. "Ending the Argument" documents the results of a limited flight test program which was designed to compare, as far as possible on equal footing, the performance and flying qualities of these four historic World War II fighter aircraft. Unfortunately, the title we chose for the paper turned out to be rather ambitious as the test program actually raised more questions than it answered. The P-47D Thunderbolt, FG-1D Corsair and the F6F-5 Hellcat used in the program were borrowed from the Kalamazoo Aviation History Museum, the "Air Zoo", of Kalamazoo, Michigan. The P-51D Mustang was on loan from Harry Tope of Mt. Pleasant, Michigan."

[Dimlee]

The F6F speed in the game is so low that it can even be caught up by the A6M5
Is it possible to recheck the data for the Pacific Fighter?

One picture is...
IL-2 Compare for BAT Sea Lion from 2017, the latest I have.
Blue: A6M5 Model 54, the fastest one. All other A6M5s are slower with a max sea level speed of 460 km/h or lower.
Red: F6F-5.

But I can imagine a case when A6M5 can catch F6F-5 at sea level. After the dive or when the Hellcat expended energy and tried to extend, for example.

[elpotro]

Main error of the comparisons in our sim consists in comparing aircraft piloted by us with aircraft piloted by AI. AI is doped and that's it, you have to accept the reality of the sim and act according to the conditions of the sim,not conditions of reality, reality in most cases not too well known...

[Irregular23]

Talking about aircraft performances, maybe this will contribute something.
In 1990, flying tests of P-47, F6F-5, F4U-1D and P-51D were conducted. In the “Sport Aviation” magazine of June 1990 there is an article about the results. If anyone is interested, here you can view and download the PDF with the scan: https://drive.proton.me/urls/XWEM6ZP3F0#9U60NFQ8F9Tc

Hi,

I've read this report before, and I found it to be quite valuable for comparing those 4 aircrafts. However, the planes involved in that test were not in combat config, and I found it weird to calculate aerodynamic coefficients from the data plots it provided, so I believe the airspeed were not so calibrated? Anyway the report provides invaluable data for the handling characteristics, especially the instantaneous turn plot. One thing I've noticed is the abnormally high stick force been tested on the P-51D, which contradicted with the report back in WWII. Perhaps it was caused by the replacement of the control traction during the reparation,  or caused by the changed CG due to different loading. 

It's always good to collect comparison report between WWII airplanes so that we dig out the real performance of those planes.

Regards.

[Dimlee]

There are two claims:
1. A6M5 catching F6F-5 at sea level.
2. Doped AI.

Let's check... Another picture and the test mission.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/cti65tumvhcb5ib/test_F6F-5_speed.zip/file

Ultrapack 3.4. Map Pacific Islands 1.

Start conditions:
Player's F6F-5 at 100 m and 490-495 km/h.
Two AI A6M5-52c at 1,500 m and 510 km/h and just 1 km on your six.
50% fuel for all. Difficulty settings: all realistic except the views/icons.

What to do: Push your throttle full forward and apply the autostab immediately after the start. Relax and watch the show.

Your F6F-5 accelerates and goes on with 513-514 km/h. Altitude slightly rising despite the autostab.
A6M5-52c dive and reach 580-584 km/h. Then they slow down and can hardly maintain 470 km/h.
F6F-5 escapes.

We can change the start conditions to give even more advantage to A6M5, of course.
Hellcat with full loadout and max fuel, low and slow and Zeke light and high.
Hellcat doing aerobatics, flaps extended. With drop tanks.
Hellcat trying to turn with Zeke at low speeds and sea level. Life is strange and everything can happen.

Anyway, I think this small test mission speaks for itself.

P.S. Yes, yes, I agree that AI can be "doped' sometimes. But in this mission, it doesn't impress and its speed matches the graphs of IL-2 Compare for Ultrapack.

[Irregular23]

Your F6F-5 accelerates and goes on with 513-514 km/h. Altitude slightly rising despite the autostab.
A6M5-52c dive and reach 580-584 km/h. Then they slow down and can hardly maintain 470 km/h.
F6F-5 escapes.

P.S. Yes, yes, I agree that AI can be "doped' sometimes. But in this mission, it doesn't impress and its speed matches the graphs of IL-2 Compare for Ultrapack.

Hi Dimlee,

Thanks for testing it out. My friend seems to be flying with his own MOD, which is a mixed up version based on 4.13 and some other MODs, and he claimed that F6Fs were caught by A6M3 and A6M5 quite frequently, and tested out that in his game F6F-5 could only achieve 440kph with MIL and 490kph with WEP. Which is enough to shake off Zekes, but not that easy. Considering McCampbell, the top ace of F6F, claimed that he only used WEP twice during his combat career ( once when he was chased by his wingman). I would say the F6F-5 is still slower than it should be, considering that a ki-84 can do 580kph on the deck.

I also found out that in version 4.08 the F6F-5 seems to have a more reliable performance than later versions, with a Vmax of 540kph on sea level . Which is quite interesting.



Sincerely

[SAS~Storebror]

in version 4.08 the F6F-5 seems to have a more reliable performance than later versions, with a Vmax of 540kph on sea level

According to the graph.
Did you make sure that the same speeds can be achieved for real in the game?


Mike

[SAS~Sani]

My main problem with the AI in this game is that they completely ignore G limits. For example, I follow the AI pilot...same speed. He pulls hard, I pull hard..same speed...I black out, he doesn't...my plane suffers damage, he's doesn't.