Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[adampolska7]

I thank for this mod Storebror , I have however with him sure problem ( I use up 2.01 and SaS Modact for UP2.01):
When it attacks the formation of bombers  and I take for aim 4 airplane in formation rocket always it was directed on different aim
than this which attacks though I am the nearest him  , it directs
oneself on first leader airplane in formation ! Does this result from beddings this fashion?
I noticed also it that and their rocket in HistoMod 3.0 rocket was directed was on correc aims
it passes they be base oneself on your code ?
Is some way it to bullets were directed was on correc aims ?
I will add that it occupies correc to devotion of shot positions and aim is aim the nearest laid from my
airplane and rocket in no incident should not it was directed on different aim.

[SAS~Storebror]

If I read your inquiry correctly, you're claiming that the missile doesn't attack the target which you thought it would.
Did I get this right?
If so, you should take into account that the AIM-9B will not attack the target you padlocked, not the one which is closest to your aircraft and not the one with the smallest offset against your POV direction (i.e. closest to your gunsight aiming spot).
Instead, the AIM-9B will attack the hottest bait, which is the engine with the highest power output, taking into account the angle offset to your aircraft's line of sight.
For instance, if the formation leader is reasonable close to your line of sight, and his engines are running with full throttle, then there might be another aircraft with 50% throttle somewhat closer to your line of sight, but the AIM-9B will still attack the leader's engine (in case of bombers, the engine with the highest output power).

I don't know whether and/or which modifications the histomod crew made to this missile code, the behaviour may or may not be different there, but at least they got the same code as a starting point.

Best regards - Mike

[adampolska7]

OK , but I wonder czy if foundling oneself 200 metres for number fourth and   700 metres from
I include number first I , switch off measuring up on purpose , after moment again to to have certainty
that I will measure out the nearest laid aim  and rocket was directed on first in formation ! Czy if
being near fourth so and he flies on 50 percentage of power , and I have been since first so far
flying on 100 percentage of power , then despite all czy this the nearer laid aim not should oneself
for Aim 9B to give with larger aim than this being so far ?
Is this  very odd that leader flies on larger power always ?

[Jonzynator]

You know, Ive yet to download this aircraft... and i think ill give it a go today

Thanks

[SAS~Storebror]

Thanks again for your report, adampolska7.
I think I slowly get a clue about what might be going on there.

General speaking, the AIM-9B judges the bait by it's temperature difference against the "background" and it's offset from the seeking head axis, but not by it's distance. That's in contrast to radar guided missiles, where the reflected signal strength would matter (which in turn is somewhat related to the surface and distance of the target).

To simplify things, in the AIM-9B seeker code I left the distance aside completely, which might turn out as a bad idea.
Currently the code enlists potential targets and searches through this list target by target, calculating each target's bait value, eventually selecting the "hottest" one.
Probably in your case several targets showed the same bait value, which results in the first of those being selected, but that's just a guess.

Now that we're currently in the final stage of SAS Jet Pack development, I'd kindly like to ask for your patience about this issue, since I'd rather like to sort out this one in the new missile code for the SAS Jets, which is completely redesigned and will later be adopted to a final F-86J release version (which will be finally standalone then, including all neccessary files, 3D part, cockpit etc. in contrast to the current version which strongly relies on the Ultrapack Jets).
Probably after SAS Jets release the F-86J will can the can somehow, but for those who still like to fly with it, it will be kept alive.

Best regards - Mike

[adampolska7]

OK . It thanks for answer , I wish in more far work success and I apologize for my bad
English language .

[Bombnick]

Incredible mod. I would have never thought anything like this is possible in IL-2, let alone coming from modding community! A big hats off to all involved.

I have some suggestions I'd like to share though, with an intention of perfecting this mod even further.

1. The target that's chosen by a missile is the one which has the higher power output, consequently emitting most heat. This is a very good way of choosing a target the missile will attack, but there's room for improvement. Heat seeker in a head of heat seeking missile will lock on the target, which the missile receives the highest heat flux from - the most Watts per square meter. Now heat flux falls with a square of distance (just like a light flux etc.), which means that if you have two identical planes ahead of you with exactly the same throttle setting, one at 1km and the other one at 2km ahead of you, the closer one will give you 4 times higher heat footprint. Probability of missile locking on the closer target should in this case be much higher than the probability of it locking on the farther plane. Or, different example, if you have a heat source at 1km and another one which has double power output at 2km, the closer one will still give you two times stronger IR signal despite the source itself being weaker, simply because it's closer. Bottom line - in the "locking on algorithm", the missile now chooses the highest P (for Power). It should choose the highest P/(r*r), I believe this correction shouldn't be too hard to implement.

2. I really like how the rear-aspect of this missile is done. It's nearly impossible to lock on from any other angle apart from 6 oclock. But this should however only go for jet aircraft, which are a very strong IR emitters into the rear hemisphere. Piston driven aircraft emit the heat much more isotropicaly and should consequently be harder to lock on, but on the other hand the probability of locking on from rear shouldn't be much higher than the probability of locking on from any other angle, if at all. BUT - the missile will much easier hit from the rear than from any other angle, despite being locked on, due to less maneouvering and easier target (no deflection).

Guys, I really like this mod and again I can't express how amazed I am. Being a big fan of early cold war scenarios, I'd only like to contribute to this area of modding, but unfortunately I'm a complete java iliterate. Please consider this post only as a suggestion on how to further improve this masterpiece - no criticism intended at all.

[adampolska7]

The stream of warmth grows to square with fall about half of distance together with .
Very good idea Bombnick !

[Bombnick]

Oh, and another thing just crossed my mind - these early IR missiles without IR filters had a bad habit of weering off towards the Sun (a very strong IR source) if it happened to enter their field of view (or even towards the clouds in special circumstances like when an isolated cloud was well lit with a light from the Sun, or sometimes battlefiled fires and explosions but I'm just mentioning it for fun, trying to model this in game woud be impossible I guess). Early models of Atoll are believed to have the same problems for apparent reasons. Can't find any Russian source confirming this though.

I know this attraction of these missiles to the Sun might very well be impossible or extremely demanding to implement with a current game engine limits, but just in case it isn't I thought I'd mention it as it would really bring another fascinating feature to the game. So, trying to catch a plane which is running into a sunset might prove impossible without barrel armament. Steering towards the Sun would also give a plane on defensive and chased by an AIM-9B or K-13 equipped plane a nice free anti-missile decoy.

[SAS~Storebror]

Hi Bombnick,

thanks for your suggestions.
The target distance will be accounted for in future versions of the missile code.
As for the lock on probability, I think that what you say about the difference between piston and jet engines makes sense, I'll discuss this with others being involved here.
The Sun Ray tracking "error" is in the pipeline to be implemented in future versions, too.
Additionally, we're about to implement another error of the non-cooled seeking heads, the ground object tracking issue. This issue causes the missile to head for a random ground object, if the missile is too low and/or heading down to the ground too steep. That's kind of "not look-down, shoot-down capable" implementation.

Thanks again for the valueable feedback and best regards - Mike

[Bombnick]

Hey Mike, thanks for looking into this!

Looks like you are on a good way to produce nothing less than the best missile behaviour ever seen on a home PC. 

[Strike]

Another note I was thinking about! From testing your mod (which has been fun!) I was thrilled to find that the missiles weren't über-effective!! Evasions are possible etc...

What I now wonder is; have/are you taken/taking account to missile booster time + speed bleedoff after booster has burnt out + missile energy bleed during manouvering??

PS: I don't know exactly where you got the effects from, but footages from AIM-9b kills usually show a long-lasting white/light-grey stream behind them as least as long as the booster is burning.

just some old Aim-9 commercial brag-video


I'm sure you've studied tons of these already.

Anyways to get back to the topic: What I'm most concerned about is the energybleed. Missiles work better in thin atmospheres in maintaining speed and making them longer range. Get them down low and the manouvering will cost them much speed. Then again: aim-9 is a short-range weapon, so usually it strikes it's target whilst still having a lot of speed.


Anyways, very very happy with the current release. I never saw it possible in the IL-2 game engine until you proved it! Until recently I always thought the best way to do it was use the X-4 code and just change the missile models :p

thanks for an exellent mod! Tusen takk;)