Post by: SAS~CirX on July 16, 2009, 04:45:51 AM
This is one of the most important mods for offline gamers to have. I quote a bit from the authors original thread at AAA:
Quote
What does this do?
It changes the enemy pilot AI so that they perform defensive maneuvers besides the 360 degree roll.
- The AI should now scissor vertically and horizontally, zig zag from side to side, attempt negative G redouts to foul up your shot, perform an angled split S instead of constantly doing that 360 degree roll thing and all sorts of other stuff
- Made changes to the pilot settings to simulate overheat and reduce their unrealistic advantage of always being perfectly trimmed.
- AI Gunners are now toned down for AI aircraft only. AI Gunners on player controlled aircraft remain with default accuracy, even if co-op host is running AI mod. There's nothing that can currently be done about this.
- Changed landing light behavior. Will only use nav and landing lights at night, and should now use Nav lights in landing pattern, switch to landing lights on final.
- Random chance of enemy aircraft not reacting if you approach from behind with a large energy advantage. This is to simulate the AI getting "bounced". Chance decreases as skill level of enemy pilot increases, almost no chance of this happening vs. an Ace.
AI BEHAVIOR CHANGES ARE MOSTLY DONE TO VETERAN AND ACE LEVELS. TO FULLY UTIILIZE THIS MOD, TRY TO PLAY ON VETERAN OR ABOVE.
More detailed changes and notes available in the readme.txt in the AI_MOD install directory
DOWNLOAD CERT AI mod, SAS rePack (https://storebror.it.cx/sas/archive/sas/othermods/CertAI_SASver.zip)
To install, defrost the zipfile, and put the folder called "AI_MOD" in your MODS folder
S! and Thanx to Certificate form everyone at SAS!
SAS~CirX
Post by: Spinnetti on December 22, 2009, 03:34:40 PM
Thanks!
Post by: SAS~CirX on December 22, 2009, 03:48:24 PM
Post by: Spinnetti on December 22, 2009, 04:41:12 PM
I am reasonably sure it is. Have you checked the 1.8 and 2.0 readme's?I did read them, but wasn't clear. I just did a QMB test, and with or without the mod added, it is same behavior on Ace, so must be in there already. Thanks for the reply.
Post by: SAS~Malone on December 22, 2009, 10:53:10 PM
Post by: Spinnetti on December 23, 2009, 10:32:08 AM
To confirm, it is in UP, Spinetti, it's incorporated into Zuti's mod, iirc. ;)
Thanks for the confirmation...
Post by: AKD on January 02, 2010, 07:49:09 AM
Post by: Affe on January 03, 2010, 12:02:08 AM
But if attack a B-17 i shoot my face very hard and on right side W.. ?! >:(
Please man can you update mod I.A for 4.09b1m players? And maybe 4.09m spécialy the gunner problem thanks bro :-\
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on January 04, 2010, 07:55:20 AM
Hi SAS~CirX0, i have big problem with this mod, its my gunner of my Bf-110 or Ju-87 88 etc.... The I.A do not aim l 'ennemie or not shoot ???
But if attack a B-17 i shoot my face very hard and on right side W.. ?! >:(
Please man can you update mod I.A for 4.09b1m players? And maybe 4.09m spécialy the gunner problem thanks bro :-\
Check class file for conflict!!!!
Post by: SAS~Malone on January 04, 2010, 09:14:24 AM
@like walter said, go through the classfiles to see if you have a conflict...
Post by: Affe on January 04, 2010, 03:05:30 PM
But classfiles? :-X
Post by: socorrista22198 on January 05, 2010, 08:08:16 AM
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on January 05, 2010, 01:06:49 PM
Ohh, ok
But classfiles? :-X
This mod have some incompatibility with some other mods!
Check the original tread od Certificate at AAA to find what the mods in conflict are!!
cheers
walter
Post by: Affe on January 05, 2010, 09:24:35 PM
But a have look this (DOWNLOAD CERT AI mod, SAS rePack) ''rePack'' :o
Thanks for help guys.
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on January 06, 2010, 01:17:36 AM
http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11504&highlight=cert (http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11504&highlight=cert)
http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13652&highlight=cert (http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13652&highlight=cert)
http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18739&highlight=cert (http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18739&highlight=cert)
http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6120&highlight=cert (http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6120&highlight=cert)
are huge topic but is better that you expend some times to read them to understand what is behind!!!
cheers
walter
Post by: Affe on January 08, 2010, 07:59:57 AM
I have chose the 2e link.
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on January 08, 2010, 09:27:29 AM
Post by: panzer1b on March 06, 2010, 02:03:29 PM
but something must be done about gunners,
i have few ideas:
1: AI could be just made to be less acuurate especially during maneuvers,
2: Also one idea i believe a tad easier is to modifly the rear gunner's spread factor, (i am looking at mg81 here), as many rear guns are just to sniper with next to 0 spread (don't believe me jump in anything wth a mg81 in it and shoot, then see how it is a freaking sniper), i would do this myself but i am not thet advanced at modding yet
Post by: Condor on May 22, 2010, 05:46:01 PM
But to be honest this is an excellent mod .
( It is me or the 109 is a little pink in colour ? )
Post by: BravoFxTrt on May 22, 2010, 06:06:33 PM
Post by: Spinnetti on May 22, 2010, 06:08:00 PM
No its not you and that Pink 109 is offended by that remark, either all pink or none at all, but not a little pink. lol :D
Its Purple... ATI video card I presume? I forget the setting in config.ini, but you can fix that (unless its just a really bad paint job!)
Post by: Condor on May 22, 2010, 06:15:11 PM
I thought you had graphics card problem , just like Spinnetti said .
The conf.ini lines are maybe
TexFlags.UseVertexArrays=0
TexFlags.VertexArrayExt=0
Or Here : http://www.allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16418 (http://www.allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16418)
Post by: BravoFxTrt on May 22, 2010, 07:03:44 PM
Post by: Spinnetti on May 22, 2010, 07:39:57 PM
Well shoot, thanks for the tip guys, and I have to admit I am coloured blind to some extent, "I dont see the pink", so I am going to take your word for this and try new settings from which I will post a screen of the 109.Well, if you can't see it anyway, no need to fuss with it!
Post by: Condor on May 24, 2010, 02:31:04 PM
Post by: BravoFxTrt on May 25, 2010, 04:21:46 AM
Post by: Guggy on June 03, 2010, 03:23:38 PM
As of late, I'm not 100% sure that the AI pack is working for me. In the past two fights I've engaged in (one vs a Spit 5, the other vs a Yak 9) the AI has done those weird pointless rolls as well as other bizarre moves. Is there any way to guarantee that the mod is running?
I've placed the folder inside my Mods folder, so it seems that it is installed correctly at least :-X
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on June 04, 2010, 02:08:59 AM
Those are incompatible at the moment!
Otherwise check that you don't have doubled class files and try to put it at the top of the mods folder!
cheers
walter
Post by: Tomoholic on June 05, 2010, 03:12:07 PM
Did you install the Lutz trigger mod?
Those are incompatible at the moment!
Otherwise check that you don't have doubled class files and try to put it at the top of the mods folder!
cheers
walter
Lutz trigger mod?
Where can that be found?
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on June 05, 2010, 03:43:35 PM
Try here: https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,2972.0.html (https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,2972.0.html)
Post by: Mick on June 05, 2010, 04:02:42 PM
Post by: Novotny on February 18, 2011, 03:19:13 AM
Post by: Checkyersix on February 18, 2011, 01:27:25 PM
Post by: Novotny on February 18, 2011, 02:30:14 PM
Post by: Dinosbacsi on February 18, 2011, 02:33:17 PM
Post by: Checkyersix on February 18, 2011, 02:36:44 PM
Post by: U on May 10, 2011, 10:04:03 AM
Isn't there any standalone version of that to use with SASModact 4.10.1?
Post by: SAS~Anto on May 11, 2011, 08:47:28 PM
If there's a version for 4.10, then maybe, but the 4.09 version would be missing a lot of stuff that the AI needs to use the new weapons.
Thats pretty spot on from my account. This does work with 4.101m but AI are retarded when it comes to using weapons.
Honestly though, even Cert AI mod is fairly out of date and needs work. I've been testing this with the new jets and it falls short in a lot of ways. For example, AI jets very commonly overshoot their targets in zoom-booms and NEVER use head on attacks. If they use rockets or missiles, them seem only to use them within 500m of the target (in fact, I watched a F-86D fire rockets at its target at less than 100m!!)
The AI mod is also lacking some of the other updates including overheating and ground attack behaviour fixes. Soo, I think its time we do something about this :)
Post by: Stratodog on May 11, 2011, 09:29:59 PM
For example, AI jets very commonly overshoot their targets in zoom-booms and NEVER use head on attacks.
Just wondering, are these veteran or higher AI? I remember that Certificate set it up so that only vet. or higher would shoot head-on.
The AI mod is also lacking some of the other updates including overheating and ground attack behaviour fixes. Soo, I think its time we do something about this :)
I'll second that. I'd love to see this happen. :)
Post by: Far77 on May 12, 2011, 02:24:28 AM
The AI mod is also lacking some of the other updates including overheating and ground attack behaviour fixes. Soo, I think its time we do something about this :)
I watched AI-vs-AI a lot, and see a lot of various shorcomings. I think that AI "tactical" thinking should be improved too. For example jets often don't use their speed superiority , and often fall victim of piston-engined planes while dogfighting.
So if you need a "beta-tester", please send me PM. I hope that I would be able to find some time for this.
Post by: SAS~Anto on May 15, 2011, 09:32:34 PM
Far77: Indeed, I've seen MiG-17s get the shit ripped out of them by P-51s and in many cases F-86Ds (currently beta testing) get their arse wooped by the rear gunners on Tu-4s. It isn't right. At the other end of the spectrum, this mod stops WW1 biplanes from doing their endless spiral towards the ground in a dogfight.
With some careful thinking, this mod could be perfect and run with 4.101m. I unfortunately can't volunteer for this task, my hands are incredibly full. But regardless, a merging of all AI mods and updating this to 4.101m is essential.
Post by: Far77 on May 15, 2011, 10:06:37 PM
Far77: Indeed, I've seen MiG-17s get the shit ripped out of them by P-51s and in many cases F-86Ds (currently beta testing) get their arse wooped by the rear gunners on Tu-4s. It isn't right. At the other end of the spectrum, this mod stops WW1 biplanes from doing their endless spiral towards the ground in a dogfight.
With some careful thinking, this mod could be perfect and run with 4.101m. I unfortunately can't volunteer for this task, my hands are incredibly full. But regardless, a merging of all AI mods and updating this to 4.101m is essential.
By the way, it seems to me that currently planes are too easy to disintegrate their fuselage. Especially funny it looks with jets which fuselage disintgrates approximately through their construction alignments showing engines etc... :).
Regarding the AI. I hope that someone can improve it because for me it is one of the weakest points in the nice game.
Post by: X-Raptor on May 16, 2011, 06:09:14 AM
Regarding the AI. I hope that someone can improve it because for me it is one of the weakest points in the nice game.
[/quote]
;) that woud be the best of all mod FB1946. only CERTIFICATE made something about this till 2yrs ago..was he the only genius here? ::)
Post by: Roger Smith on May 16, 2011, 07:20:26 AM
[quote
Regarding the AI. I hope that someone can improve it because for me it is one of the weakest points in the nice game.
;) that woud be the best of all mod FB1946. only CERTIFICATE made something about this till 2yrs ago..was he the only genyus here? ::)
[/quote]
it's spell Genius
Post by: X-Raptor on May 16, 2011, 05:02:10 PM
it's spell Genius[quote
Regarding the AI. I hope that someone can improve it because for me it is one of the weakest points in the nice game.
;) that woud be the best of all mod FB1946. only CERTIFICATE made something about this till 2yrs ago..was he the only genyus here? ::)
[/quote] thkk ;)
Post by: OberstDanjeje on May 17, 2011, 01:25:52 AM
Post by: X-Raptor on May 17, 2011, 12:50:43 PM
Post by: OberstDanjeje on May 17, 2011, 01:53:07 PM
Post by: Wildchild on July 17, 2011, 08:40:13 PM
Post by: LuseKofte on July 18, 2011, 07:15:29 AM
[quote
Regarding the AI. I hope that someone can improve it because for me it is one of the weakest points in the nice game.
;) that woud be the best of all mod FB1946. only CERTIFICATE made something about this till 2yrs ago..was he the only genius here? ::)
[/quote]
Getting AI to think is like making humanoids, Actually the strongest point in this game is the AI, if you think our AI is dumb try any other simulation even clod the new warthog they are really stupid in other games compare to this game. I think it shows the difficulty in this task making AI inpredictiable. But good luck, because it will improve game a lot.
Post by: Wildchild on July 18, 2011, 12:28:15 PM
Post by: SAS~Anto on July 18, 2011, 08:51:54 PM
Would it be possible for a player to go online and record other pilots movements and implement those into the AI?
I wish that was possible!
Post by: _AUS_Salmo on July 18, 2011, 11:08:09 PM
PULL_UP; LEVEL_PLANE; ROLL; ROLL_90; ROLL_180; SPIRAL_BRAKE; SPIRAL_UP; SPIRAL_DOWN; CLIMB; DIVING_0_RPM; DIVING_30_DE; DIVING_45_DEG; TURN; MIL_TURN; LOOP; LOOP_DOWN; HALF_LOOP_UP; HALF_LOOP_DOWN; STALL;
SPEEDUP; BELL; FOLLOW; LANDING; TAKEOFF; ATTACK; WAVEOUT; SINUS; ZIGZAG_UP; ZIGZAG_DOWN; ZIGZAG_SPIT; HALF_LOOP_DOWN_135; HARTMANN_REDOUT; ROLL_360; STALL_POKRYSHKIN; BARREL_POKRYSHKIN; SLIDE_LEVEL; SLIDE_DESCENT; RANVERSMAN; CUBAN; CUBAN_INVERT; GATTACK; PILOT_DEAD; HANG_ON; DELAY; EMERGENCY_LANDING; GATTACK_DIVE; GATTACK_TORPEDO; GATTACK_CASSETTE; GATTACK_KAMIKAZE; GATTACK_TINYTIM; FAR_FOLLOW; SPIRAL_DOWN_SLOW; FOLLOW_SPIRAL_UP; SINUS_SHALLOW; GAIN; SEPARATE; BE_NEAR; EVADE_UP; EVADE_DN; ENERGY_ATTACK; ATTACK_BOMBER; PARKED_STARTUP; COVER; TAXI; RUNWAY; FAR_COVER; TAKEOFF_VTOL_A; LANDING_VTOL_A; CLIMBFOR_ADVANTAGE; MOD_ATTACK;
There are two issue here: (1) Whether the range of manouvers needs expanding, and (2) whether the 'inteligence' of the AI in using those manouvers needs improving. Can I suggest that people address these issues, rather than generic complaints about "poor AI manouvers" & requests for "beter AI performance". Make requests for specific manouvers that are not in-game, or to be more specific about what is is that they percieve as poor AI performance. That way the coding guru's can get a better idea of how to improve the manouvers file.
I'll kick it off with some specifics:
(1) AI just gliding off anywhere when their engines are dead, even if there is an airfield closeby. Would be good if AI could attempt an emergency landing.
(2) Thatch-weave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thach_Weave) manouver for allied AI pairs, particularly after mid-WW2.
(3) High & low Yo-Yo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_fighter_maneuvers#Immelmann) manouvers
(4) Immelmann (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immelmann_turn)manouver
Post by: SAS~Anto on July 19, 2011, 01:44:20 AM
There is some progress with this which will become available soon. For now, there is a beta 'AI Engines Hotkeys' mod available in DBW which at least included Cert's AI mod.
Post by: Far77 on July 19, 2011, 10:36:56 PM
Some heavy bombers can swing their wings ("being frightened") like fighters. :)
And some fighters can swing/roll their wings as propellers...
But there are some proper exceptions. For me AI of Il-10 is one of the best. It flies smoothly, doesnot swing/shake his wings (at least I can't remember seeing this). The only overdoze is its fantastic accurate shooting (maybe the best for wing-mounted cannons) despite its crew (cockpit) very poor ergonomy and primitive gunsights.
It would be nice if some software expert look at its coding.
Post by: _AUS_Salmo on July 20, 2011, 07:24:14 AM
What is needed is a very carefull and detailed DECISION procedure that will screw up as little as possible given the variety of situations that could be presented to AI.Here ...here ... :)
Post by: andqui on July 20, 2011, 08:39:34 AM
I realize this is immensely difficult to code, but it is something to think about. The only sim I have seen that does this convincingly is Battle of Britain II, which uses a system that tracks how much of a disadvantage the AI finds itself in (i.e. friendly:enemy ratio and losses), and at a randomized tipping point makes the loosing side try it's best to get the hell out of dodge. It also uses an AI field-of-view routine so you can bounce an enemy from behind or below, and also let's the AI sometimes loose track of the player if he hugs the deck, just as the human player can loose track of the AI. Often, a dogfight was described by pilots as intense and then suddenly they're alone in the sky. This is doesn't happen too much in Il2, and the AI knows exactly where anything within a fixed radius is and then proceeds to fight to the death.
Of course, if the fight happens at a very small scale, like 2v2 or 4v4, the percentage losses might be expected to be higher, and there are many variations and exceptions. While the AI in Il-2 is better than most, and cert's AI mod was a quantum leap, as is the version in DBW, it would be absolutely fantastic if it were possible to implement a desire to return successfully to base. I'm just trying to point out issues that the outstanding modders here might be able to address.
thanks
Post by: Murray on July 20, 2011, 11:42:12 AM
I really hate games where the AI cheats. Especially where the AI cheats to punish the players (as compared to other AI) and hunt the player's plane down specifically. This isn't the first gave I have experienced this, and I just hate it on the principle of the matter.
Any AI mods that change that would be welcome in my book, but I do not know how hard any of that is to code so I'll just post my opinions and leave them out there for any others to use (or not...) how they like.
Post by: Slikk on July 20, 2011, 12:37:17 PM
I really hate games where the AI cheats. Especially where the AI cheats to punish the players (as compared to other AI) and hunt the player's plane down specifically. This isn't the first gave I have experienced this, and I just hate it on the principle of the matter.
Any AI mods that change that would be welcome in my book, but I do not know how hard any of that is to code so I'll just post my opinions and leave them out there for any others to use (or not...) how they like.
@ Murray
You don’t need a mod, you can fix this yourself. Bandits that hunt specifically for the player can be fixed in the FMB. All you have to do is open the mission in the FMB, then find the enemy flight that’s attached to the player aircraft and unattach it. ;)
Post by: Stratodog on July 21, 2011, 12:17:56 PM
Post by: Uzin on July 21, 2011, 02:06:25 PM
The second, more complex thing would be if AI can be catched surprised, when player is going from the sun.
But, where is the genius who would programme it ? :P
Post by: SAS~Malone on October 10, 2011, 05:00:18 AM
his ongoing AOC mod development includes all of the above options, as well as AI not being able to see through clouds, etc....
Post by: Mick on October 10, 2011, 05:13:36 AM
http://hist-simu.2jg51.org/hs/phpBB2/index.php?sid=90d972ed20c16672311133c3da026247
... and is currently completing the AOC 3 export pack ... ;)
... it will include the AI not being able to see through/inside clouds, or facing the sun or at night mod etc....
AFAIK, this new pack will only be compatible with a 4.09m install (with extra features extracted from 4.10) ...
Later, things like historical tactics, the "Abwehrkreis" (defensive circle) for ex, will be added ... ;)
Post by: SAS~Malone on October 10, 2011, 06:08:01 AM
Post by: X-Raptor on October 10, 2011, 11:21:31 AM
... well in fact Lutz belongs to :
http://hist-simu.2jg51.org/hs/phpBB2/index.php?sid=90d972ed20c16672311133c3da026247
... and is currently completing the AOC 3 export pack ... ;)
... it will include the AI not being able to see through/inside clouds, or facing the sun or at night mod etc....
AFAIK, this new pack will only be compatible with a 4.09m install (with extra features extracted from 4.10) ...
Later, things like historical tactics, the "Abwehrkreis" (defensive circle) for ex, will be added ... ;)
WHAT THE HELL??!!.. NOT 4.10?? If this is true this most wanted mod will be 90% unusuable.
Post by: shardana on October 10, 2011, 12:19:45 PM
Post by: Mick on October 10, 2011, 01:36:19 PM
AFAIK, this new pack will only be compatible with a 4.09m install (with extra features extracted from 4.10) ...
WHAT THE HELL??!!.. NOT 4.10?? If this is true this most wanted mod will be 90% unusuable.
Well Lutz made the choice of keeping 4.09 and import into it whatever he judged useful from 4.10 and the upcoming ones, simply because this solution is way easier than the one consisting in porting 4.09 mods to 4.10 and then 4.101 ... and then what ...??
He mostly works alone, no team work except for testing, but nothing will prevent us from having a multiple install game etc...
In case you would like to have a (French) idea of what he has already done with AOC2a version here is a very interesting 55 page pdf for you to read ... ;)
http://hist-simu.2jg51.org/Mods/AOCv2a.pdf
Post by: agracier on October 10, 2011, 03:03:12 PM
I must say that luckily no aircraft display any whacky or downright stupid flying maneuvers, but even so I'd like to know if this mod is otherwise doing nothing in a DBW install?
Post by: xmlnoob on April 02, 2012, 12:18:28 PM
Thanks alot.
Post by: hguderian on April 02, 2012, 01:10:16 PM
https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,23327.0.html
Read carefully!
Cheers
Post by: jookan on March 09, 2014, 08:25:16 AM
Post by: blackshark on July 31, 2014, 04:15:07 AM
Post by: SAS~Malone on July 31, 2014, 05:06:40 AM
Post by: Airbourne on June 17, 2015, 02:26:20 AM
Post by: Knochenlutscher on June 17, 2015, 11:33:36 AM
But to my knowledge that was deal with the original too. Some people saw the difference,
others complained pages long that they don't see any difference. You can trace it by playing two times the same Mission
and analyze AI behaviour, not focussing on your plane etc. Then you see marginal differences (random) behaviour.
As Malone said, this version of AI Mod is 409 comp only.
Hit delete or use at own risk, this version is superceded by newer Files in your DBW.
A quick file search will let you see that all are included in XTD/DBW Base,
with 3 out of 4 superceded by latest compatible version of SAS AI_Engine_HotKeys_Carriers as well.
A quick Test showed I was able to load this, needs more testing to see.
Anyway, hope I could help you a bit
Post by: spartan18a on June 18, 2015, 01:26:18 AM
Post by: Airbourne on June 18, 2015, 03:00:06 AM
I still don't understand why the mod is in 1916 but who cares? Perhaps it is another variant of the mod.
Post by: spartan18a on September 19, 2015, 07:02:42 AM
The AI is probably the worst part of the latest version.
Post by: SAS~Gerax on September 19, 2015, 09:27:44 AM
The AI is probably the worst part of the latest version.
why?
Post by: spartan18a on September 19, 2015, 10:41:22 AM
Poor evasive maneuvers,
Very high skills in average pilots ....
Very predictable moves
and does the AI have blind spots?
Can the AI see through clouds?
Post by: jeanba on September 19, 2015, 12:53:23 PM
The problem is for instance with dgen
There are so much losses that the player 's unit is decimated in 1 or 2 missions and things are very difficult for the subsequent situations
Post by: spartan18a on September 20, 2015, 04:38:32 AM
The game works fine without any kind of crashing but I am not sure if the mod is working.
It would be nice if more people do the same and we get more empirical data.
This mod seems so good ....