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Author Topic: Bachem Ba 349 Natter  (Read 33776 times)

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Maico

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Re: Bachem Ba 349 Natter
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2011, 02:08:39 AM »

 Uhmmm.  Interesting aircraft.  I remember thinking that Me-163 flights would be aweful, boring and short.  They are anything but that.  At altitude the engine can be switched off and with patience you can learn to make multiple bomber kills.  It made me rethink the Komet.  It was always one of the most beautifull aircraft IMO. 
  This little monster has (allmost)no wings.  So performance should be aweful.  Any sort of roll should take ages.  It is also the ugliest thing ever.  Flights should be real short.  You only get one chance at firing your salvo.   This does not sound like fun.  But I have been wrong before.  See above.  I say, why not?
  Lets not open the can of worms about aircraft we have in IL2 that do not apply.  Can you say Mig-9 boys and girls?  How about the I-250? 
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CWMV

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Re: Bachem Ba 349 Natter
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2011, 02:30:44 AM »

Uhmmm.  Interesting aircraft.  I remember thinking that Me-163 flights would be aweful, boring and short.  They are anything but that.  At altitude the engine can be switched off and with patience you can learn to make multiple bomber kills.  It made me rethink the Komet.  It was always one of the most beautifull aircraft IMO. 
  This little monster has (allmost)no wings.  So performance should be aweful.  Any sort of roll should take ages.  It is also the ugliest thing ever.  Flights should be real short.  You only get one chance at firing your salvo.   This does not sound like fun.  But I have been wrong before.  See above.  I say, why not?
  Lets not open the can of worms about aircraft we have in IL2 that do not apply.  Can you say Mig-9 boys and girls?  How about the I-250?

A man of my own line of thought. I too disregarded the 163, until I started to play with it. That's what makes me so interested in the natter.
If the game didn't already have AC like the Mig9, I-250, etc I wouldn't say anything at all. I mean come on, a Lerche!  :D
As to the AC's performance, in towed tests pilots reported that it handled 'well' although that's kinda cryptic. 'Well" may only mean that it stayed aloft.
As to missions for it, I don't think it would be any different than the 163. Get up fast, take out a few bombers and run the F*** away! Imagine 20 of these things going head on into a bomber stream! It would be impressive to say the least.
I will agree that there are still other historical aircraft that are needed for the sim (D-520 anyone?) but if the Luftwaffe was so desperate as to field an AC like the Komet I'm sure they would have fielded the Natter had the war continued. 1946 would have been an interesting year in the air war for sure.
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StrykVladzimsky

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Re: Bachem Ba 349 Natter
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2011, 05:39:11 AM »

But Poltava! We can never have enough of those amazing, yet epically kooky "Wunderaffen"! On with the show!
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SAS~Poltava

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Re: Bachem Ba 349 Natter
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2011, 06:04:47 AM »

Well, if anyone makes the Bachem, I will sure use it!!! I'm just saying that *IF* I could build aircraft, it wouldn't be MY first choice.  ;D ;D ;D
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LuseKofte

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vanir

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Re: Bachem Ba 349 Natter
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2011, 07:09:25 AM »

Most of the historical "wrongness" of the Komet, Salamander and Natter projects don't really apply to a sim environment so whilst I'm with Galland's opinion for their use in the real world Luftwaffe, I've no problem with them being in IL2.

The Komet reportedly handled extremely well, better than many regular fighters but its problem was being a crap shoot of lethality for the pilot. The fuels were so corrosive that even enough vapours leaking into the cockpit during a bouncy landing literally melted some pilots to death in the seat. I've a report of ground crew responding to a rough landed Komet and finding exactly that, the pilot had been (again I stress quite literally) melted to death in his seat by a small amount of leaked fuel vapour from nothing more than some residue in the tank. Quite simply that is not an airworthy craft, it's a suicide machine on that basis alone.

The Salamander has the same problem as the Natter and vice versa. These high performing experimental types are a major handful for a highly experienced test pilot but outright suicide for inexperienced cadets that were fully intended to operate them. Other real world issues with the Natter are its closing speed, which is the same issue as with the Me-163 and may have led to it not being adopted into service. The simple fact was they proved completely ineffective at shooting down bombers, an Me-262 was almost too quick to do it and it took a fair bit of skill, highly experienced aces usually overshot before having time to fire on their first few interception sorties in it.
But here you're talking about inexperienced cadets with inadequate training and no conversion time for the type. I agree with Galland in saying all you're going to see is a bunch of kids take off, fly high and fast into the ground and blow up before managing to learn how to control the damn thing, let alone shoot something down with it.
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LuseKofte

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Re: Bachem Ba 349 Natter
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2011, 07:51:38 AM »

The one that flew the natter first was a degraded young ace, he was a promising fellow with a bad drinking problem who took upon him to be the first testpilot to regain his rank. He died. this plane was actually ready for use, but the site was captured by american groundforces. The natter u see in pic is a frankenplane taken from several parts in the factory making them because the german`s manage to destroy the ones at launch site
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Radoye

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Re: Bachem Ba 349 Natter
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2011, 04:56:41 PM »

Yeah, this thing was real. Impractical, even suicidal, but real. Would it be deployed in numbers if the war dragged on, i can't tell. But it did exist, it flew at least once.

Which makes it 1000000 times better and more worthy candidate for inclusion in the game than many Luft'46 paper-planes that are already in.

Of course, i'd rather take a D0 17 or a D.520, or a number of other important types that were historically deployed in large numbers.

But i won't say no to a Natter either ;)
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RooMan296

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Re: Bachem Ba 349 Natter
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2011, 05:29:43 PM »

This addition would make more sense and be a lot more fun than the MXYZ Ohka! (Which, even though a one way trip,  is still fun to play around with.)

I think it would be quite a challenge to shoot straight into a bomber flight, fire a rocket salvo and hope you survive the bail out, etc.. Maybe it would lose it's appeal after awhile, may be not. But the eye candy alone would be worth the effort. Besides,  I think there is more than enough room in the game for it.
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Cranky.1

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Re: Bachem Ba 349 Natter
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2011, 05:32:23 PM »

Yes if the war went onto 1946 Ba 349 Natter would have been used in great numbers. Plus there was also the Messerschmitt Enzian Surface-to-Air Missile


more info http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/rpav_germany_mess.html

P.S. If anyone whats a nice GMAX file of the Ba 349 Natter by Starry http://simviation.com/1/search?submit=1&keywords=natter
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RooMan296

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Re: Bachem Ba 349 Natter
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2011, 06:50:15 PM »

Well then! I'm more convinced than ever! Let's do this thing! (I say "lets" as if I could actually contribute anything to it except to cheerlead.)
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SAS~Anto

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Re: Bachem Ba 349 Natter
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2011, 07:33:49 PM »

In fact there was a Ba-349 project a while ago but it stalled after some arguments over crediting and some useless inter-site flaming wars.
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