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[StG77_HaDeS]

It will be an off-line version based on UP but with features that will make the life of an off-liner simpler and easier. Compatibilities with some individual mods will be greater and it will be easier to use, but any on-line activity of bug-free on-line activity will not be guaranteed. There will be no crt=2 support, no on-line tweaks, no addons for on-line specific usage and probably no compatibility with any "stock" servers.

[FlatSpinMan]

Good thread. As a mission builder I long ago decided the using all the cool mods that really add so much to the game just wasn't worth it. As a player I NEVER use campaigns that require me to install extra mods. I just can't be bothered. My free time is limited so I want to download it, install the files and go. If I do that as p player, why should I expect anyone playing my campaigns to do otherwise?

Very glad to hear that some kind of standard for off-liners is coming out as we tend to get overlooked by people developing stuff for on-line purposes.

What really bugs me as an offline player and campaign maker is stuff that is not backwards compatible - it ruins thousands of hours of effort that went into pre-existing user-made content. Doubtless the new stuff is better, more accurate, more sparkly, whatever, but IL2 has been built on a base of excellent user-made content for almost a decade now and it is folly to through that away, IMO.

[Slink]

I think Hade's list primarily refers to the twilight zone between public on-line and closed CO-OP, as the occasional on-liner should be very happy with UP, hopefully still available through the switcher.
However, does off-line include middle of the roaders who don't want to go public; LAN players who want to fly together and closed groups on private servers, or only the hardcore?

Positives; DCG!, Cert AI, PAL, CY6, an MDK etc; and all those other features people seem to have come to see as core functionality, will hopefully all work again. Anything I missed?

However, what features will not be included, like Lutz's AOC, especially visibility. Will this be included or is it an on-line feature only? As it affects the AI I see it as just as much an off-line feature, however the sniper gunners are probably better handled by CY6's mod, otherwise we're back to scripted campaigns made of single missions, but making the two work together? Again, will it be a core game feature, as UP is the core of the off-line mode?

[StG77_HaDeS]

Lan games will be possible using the same addon. ABSOLUTELY No guarantee it will work with any other version and/or "stock". No dynamic weather, no MDS multi-crew, No advanced resources management through MDS, no Ai triggers No advanced AI visibility through clouds and towards sun, and no crt=2 compliance. Simply put even if you install same addons, crt=2 will likely fail.
This will be geared to off-liners primarily. However mods like carrier take off mod or plutonium effects MIGHT be possible if someone or the author wants to integrate them.

[SAS~CirX]

I am not sure wether we are talking about UP3 or DBW anymore  But, yes, DBW will be absolutely 100% geared towards offline play. There will be no considderation or compromise for any online functionality. In fact, if it is totally unplayable online, I wont loose 1 minute of sleep. This one is for offline players only. No discussion. Online players, and those "middle of the roaders", are welcome to use UP3 for their online gaming. Or any of the other gazillion packs that have been made especially for online gaming, and including the stock game, since it has ignored offline play for years now. No interference by any online player of any level will be tolerated with the DBW pack. Period.

All mods that are important for offline play, including some those Hades mentions above (if they are important to offline play) we will look towards making them available or asking the authors to help. Any mod geared towards online play is not even going to be considdered. This is going to be the first pack in history that is made exclusively for offline players, with no compromises. Noone has ever done this before, because online players have always climbed in and spoiled it.

Since the installation of UP3 is a requirement of this pack, anyone can at anytime switch to UP3 and play online. You can even mod UP3 to a large extent, and those things it has that make it not 100% suitable for offline players, are there for good reasons for the online crowd.

DBW is the opposite end of the coin. It is going to be for offline players only.  What is important to offline players: Maps, Missions, Campaigns, Objects, Nations, Markings, Mission Customization, QMB, AI behaviour, Cockpits, Eye candy, and all the planes you can eat. And, a stable standard core, that mission and campaignbuilders can use with confidence, knowing that nothing in this pack will ever be taken out, it will only be added to. So you can make a campaign now and say "requires DBW 1.0"

And two or three years from now, players of DBW 60.0, will still be able to play it.

How this kite will fly, we will see. Exactly how the structure will work, we will figure out as we go. What will be added  and made to work or not int he future, the future will tell. All I know is, it is a first, it is exciting, and I have looked forward to this for 10 years.

[HundertzehnGustav]

dude that sounds Fekkin awesome.
Kind of, the theoretical indestructible "absolute" foundation,
on which even the biggest, heaviest, bad-ars-est mod building can stand for eternity.
more planes, more mods, where there are conflicts, they will be resolved before inclusion, probably more SFS archives as time passes...
Until the Terabyte HDD is running out of space.

reinstall after fudgeup? Goodbye.
Troubleshooting compatibilities: passé.
Install errors: drastially reduced!
Online cheating reports and complaing... not interested!

It seems to be all about the "bigger better nicer faster sexier".

*faints*

[HundertzehnGustav]

...and TD can do their own thing... the SAS doesnt care, for the SAS has taken off into a whole different direction anyway.

(fishing for comment...?)

[Mick]

Jeez ! I have been expecting this since I was born (a long time ago) or so ...!! 

I have been building my own "pack" manually (I have never used one before) for all those long years, incorporating the very few mods I judge must haves, and trust me this is not that easy when conflicts arise, and they do arise, to the point that you sometimes have to make a hard choice ...

So long live DBW !!  :

Piet I guess this must mean Daimler Benz Wonder or somethin' of the like ... 

[Slink]

Yep, + 100, with you all the way on this one;

but now the acronym is out of the bag, a quick search only revealed Paulo's post, so unless all will be revealed at the appropriate dramatic moment, and at the risk of attracting a thousand "doh" comments, anyone know what DBW actually stands for? Oddly enough it's easier to pronounce in German for once... Dhay Bhay Vhay, indeed similar to Bhay Ehm Vhay...

[Vampire_pilot]

What really bugs me as an offline player and campaign maker is stuff that is not backwards compatible - it ruins thousands of hours of effort that went into pre-existing user-made content. Doubtless the new stuff is better, more accurate, more sparkly, whatever, but IL2 has been built on a base of excellent user-made content for almost a decade now and it is folly to through that away, IMO.

I am not sure where you get that impression?!
It is backwards compatible, isn't it?! I actually recently played the old experten campaigns (parts 1, 2 and 3...) therea are aeons old, not even available anymore to download (but heck damn good!) and they sure worked. I also have the old Barbarossa campaigns... I have tons of stock content and everthing runs perfectly.

But all the other stuff...HAdes, around here this whole online thing isn't too much an issue. in fact none. I couldn't care less. and what is written here makes me eagerly await the new stuff!

DBW - whatever. hell yeah!

[DaveP63]

I look forward to this with great anticipation!!!

[SAS~CirX]

DBW= Dark Blue World , the project name for the SAS/UP offline pack. It is an homage to the movie.(and a little joke about the colour of the upper sky in il2  )