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[Gypsy9]

I was there guys real heart stopping stuff and to hear a thousand people yell nooooooo...... as the comentators just prattled on as if nothing had happend for the next half hour! the Skyraider pilot brought her in text book and stayed aboard for about 20 mins to get his head together i guess, is it me I thought that the inside guy peeled off first not the one in the middle?

Happy landings

[Wildchild]

You are joking, right? There might be the odd hydraulic hose/parts of the wiring loom etc that might be salvagable, but the sort of stresses the (remains of) airframe has been through, you would never get a certificate of airworthyness. It would be cheaper and easier to start from scratch than to attempt to rebuild this aircraft- a shame as its one of my favourite P51's

There was a P-51 that had to make a n emergency landing on the interstate about a year ago. The pilot hit full left rudder which made the aircraft tumble and almost destroyed the airplane. It was in this very shape, and that plane is now flying once again. Have you seen any post crash pictures? She almost disintegrated Like an F1 car, which means certain pieces can still go together

[Wildchild]

Quote from another website-

"I'm glad the pilot is OK.

There's no such thing as a total loss.

You can repair any aeroplane given sufficient money. Generally, "writing off" an aeroplane is a decision made on the basis of the cost to the insurance company of repairing the aeroplane versus the cost of replacing it.

Since it's pretty hard to replace something like a P-51, repair is a much more attractive option than it would be if we were talking about a Cessna 150.

Then of course there's the sentimental factor, and the fact that such rare and charismatic aeroplanes tend to hold their value well (if not appreciate). The going rate for a P-51D at the moment is around $1.4M, so if a repair is possible for that kind of money or less, it would be a reasonable investment.

Alternatively it might be parted out (it's amazing how valuable tiny parts can be!). Either way, I'd bet good money that at least some of the aeroplane ends up flying"

[Thunda]

An emergency landing followed by a ground loop is a bit different than a nose first impact with the ground at full throttle. Yes, I have seen the post crash pictures, and yes, Im sure some of the parts could be fitted together again- still not buying it would be anything like worth while (or even possible) to put it back to flying condition. You realise there are many aircraft sitting in one piece that have never been crashed sitting in museums that will never get a certificate to fly again? And you want to hammer the wreckage of this poor pony 'straight' and try and fly it? Good luck with that.......

Also, its not the insurance company that issues certificates of airworthyness, in the UK its the CAA, US its the FAA, and I think it is extremely unlikely they would ever issue one again for this airframe. I agree that some parts may be salvaged, however.

[SAS~Friction]

Wow, that really sucks that Big Beautiful Doll is no more than a scrap heap now.  That was probably my favorite P51, I have a big Flying Legends book with her in it... and use that skin everytime I fly the P51 in IL2. Such a beautiful plane.

I'm not sure who's a fault, but I must say... why did the Skyraider pilot cross into the P51's flightpath when they were executing a climbing turn. He had to have known the P51 was going to easily catch him. Hell, a P51 could climb in loops around a Skyraider. Also, I'm not so sure that the P51 pilot had to bail out, he only lost half of his right elevator. He had enough control of the aircraft to get it right side up after the collision. But I can't criticize his call to bail out, he was piloting the plane, not me. At 800-1000 feet there's really only enough time to make one decision, and that's the one he chose.

Sad to say, but I think it's about time that these vintage planes be relegated to museums, before people crash all of them and there's nothing left to admire. 

Regards
Friction

[Wildchild]

Thunda, I don't think you understand how easy it could be to repair. Once again the Caviler P-51 owned by John Bagley (FF-579) crashed on interstate 20 in Idaho and it was a pile of scrap then. It's now flying as Mormans Mustang. It also seems you don't understand FAA and EAA regulations. If the airplane is safe to fly, even if someone was killed in it, they will let it fly

[HundertzehnGustav]

Aw come on, wild child... please choose better words .

i take a look at the Stang diving nose first into the ground... and a few posts later you use the word "easy to repair".
it shows you have never tried to repair anything in metal, nor followed the restoration of , say, a single B-17 Pilot seat by 5 people, over several months of daily work.

please.
"easy"... not really the right word to choose.
sigh...

as for FAA and EAA regulations.... give me a name of ANYONE who has ever fully and completely understood these institutions...

[Thunda]

"It also seems you don't understand FAA and EAA regulations. If the airplane is safe to fly, even if someone was killed in it, they will let it fly"

So you are suggesting that this aircraft would be 'easy to repair' could be made 'safe to fly'? Really, Wildchild, you are not making sense now. I repeat, an emergency landing is not the same as a nose first crash into the ground- imagine the stresses the fuselage has been through- even if you did manage to straighten it to a degree it would be full of stress fractures. I think it is you that does not understand the situation.

[SAS~Storebror]

Mates,

it's sad enough that his happened at all.
Please don't try to get on top by argueing about things which are out of reach for any of us.
Please don't let this thread go south. Thanks for your attention!

Best regards - Mike

[LuseKofte]

Agree with Storebror here, but none of you really dont Get it. They pick up Planes from the bottom of the sea , use some parts of it, add new parts . There you go, you have a authentic warbird. If someone rebuild this bird they will do it the same way.
This is not really anything to use space and time with. I bet the wreck is already been aquired for rebuild, as soon the investigation is finnished. It will go for sparepart or rebuildt. Even with or without our blessing

[Murray]

At what point is a restoration not a restoration? You're not really using anything original. You take a plane from the bottom of the sea, beat the barnicles off of it, disassemble it, and ... then what? You're not putting those pieces back together. Instead you are hand-tooling exact duplicates out of fresh metal. You put those new pieces together. The original plane is destroyed and the new creation takes its place. Rather like an old science fiction story about matter transportation. The original is used as a blueprint/template.

So what's really original about it? Not even some of the data plates are original. Most engines are not, or at the very least under go such rigorous rebuilds that half the parts are new and not original.

It's a loss to see such hardware broken in the dirt, I agree. Let's be honest though, it was the product of a lot of effort and a lot of specialized hand-crafting, but it was done in our lifetime. Most of it was newly manufactured. Even the recent Fw190 production reflects this. You can follow the blueprints exactly, you can make it to specs... But is it truly a restored plane? Or is it just a xerox? A copy? A nice copy, but a copy. Why not the next time a plane is "restored" create 2 new parts for every 1 part removed. 2 planes built out of 1 blueprint/example. All of a sudden you increase the reward for the same amount of original airframe lost. Soon you can make a production line and save some of those real WW2 wrecks for museums.

I'm of the mind to conclude the only possible explanation for the sentiments is: We get attached to the paint scheme, rather than the plane! That's got to be the reason! Or, maybe we get attached to the collective memory and perceived ties to the past, rather than the actual object that holds the memory?

Heavy stuff, indeed.

[LuseKofte]

This is another discussion , but a interesting one. In the restorationbuisniss they do not have a choise. If you want a plane in airworthy status you can only use parts that can be accepted. The reason for the relative high number of airworthy p-51 is the availability to spare parts an all aluminium frame. In cases like restauration of Hawker hurricanes you Are bound to change the parts made of wood sometimes. In cases like This: http://www.warbirdfinders.co.uk/aircraft_FW189_V7+1H.htm
If you will move on you need to manufacture parts.