I'm with you:) I completely understand that many people (and at whom DBW was aimed) dont care about online component in any way- preparing for it or not. But for some it is nice to have continuity between online and off, so optional FM in JGSM will solve all of that:)
As for experience, pilot experience, the non-material but mental thing... I dont know. I doubt if FM changes can let me closer to experience IL2 like =FB=Viks (IL2 world champion) does, never mind let me closer to how Krupinsky felt. Those guys think on a different level to me, and their planes' edge of performance is way beyond what I can approach...
On the other hand, lets say 190 gets upgraded slow speed turning rate- it will become a monster, it will let me shoot down my enemy from more positions and more easily, let me feel like I am dominating skies like those guys... So in that respect I will experience the feeling of an unstoppable ace:) So in that way its true about getting closer to their experience. But I prefer the other way:) - feeling like a crap pilot who sees Krupinky/Viks experience as unreachable ideal, and walking towards that mythical edge of performance as opposed of moving the edge of performance towards me...
Ok I am not sure if that was coherent, I'm going to bed 
Salut!
I have to go back to bed also. before I do I will enter the conversation just a little.
I'm with you:) I completely understand that many people (and at whom DBW was aimed) dont care about online component in any way- preparing for it or not. But for some it is nice to have continuity between online and off, so optional FM in JGSM will solve all of that:)
wrong.
no one on the DBW team gives a flying fig for online play. Nothing. Nada. online players NOT WELCOME HERE. And if I do start fixing some of the the truly fucked up FM's of the past (like we have been doing, succesfully, for all non flyables, and all new slots, since the beginning of modding), it will be done in the same way that all FM's in SAS Buttons come to pass. Ill take what they guy did who is the most passionate about a specific plane, and try it out. And if it feels better to me, I will put in. SAS Buttons: Not a democratic process.
DBW is in most ways you can approach it, my creation, encompassing the very hard and long work of many others too, (and even then, some of them are me
), and in this, some of my pet peeves are going to get pulled right (in my opinion), and guys who are interested to play DBW, shall enjoy this with me. And, like all my choices fro SAS buttons in the past, 9 out of ten times everyone will agree a good call was made. And like always, if I truly fuck up, I'll be "notified" by the SAS members in short order.
I am fully aware of the faction of FM fundis who are completely nose against the chalkboard and who are statistic-extremests (graph slingers), who will be screaming and protesting any change to these ten year old fm files at all. And while what they do is realy good and important, I am afraid then very few of them "get" what they should be doing. That making the numbers work , very often does not insert even a little bit of the plane's character and legacy into it. Lots of this comes from the interaction with the player's imagination and immersion (this is why the graph slingers dont get it: they have no imagination).
A good FM is 50% numbers, and 60% art. Especialy in the engine that IL2 runs on, where the parameters are logarythmic more than linear (how to say it ? , my english math talk is non existent).
And yes, I know my sum makes for 110%, and so, this is deliberate. When I open the throttle of my spit to 110%, I want to feel 50% maths and 60% rock'n'roll.
I beleive I have gotten pretty good at spotting the good stuff. I believe that I understand a little more tham most about the true dymamics of a historical PC simulation and it's mayority of supporters. And more importantly than that, I am not afraid to fuck up, and admit it, and do something over.
In the end, new FM's are going to come into DBW. They will be anounced in the build notes. And people can tell me how they feel about them. I do not listen to graph slingers though, because they dont get it yet. But I listen to players. A FW190 A4 might be hunkey dory. all its graphs may be spot on, climb, turn, twist, roll, divespeed, whatever you can think of. But then, more than one player says "you know, it just does not "feel" right. Of course none of us KNOWS what it is supposed to feel like.
But we have accounts, opinions and words of those who do. And we have acounts of other planes, that we can compare in the game to this one, and after all that, I can realy say "yes, that is just about how I thought it should feel"
And that is not something you will solve with graphs. There is a balance to it, and there is an art.
I am still considering whether to re-lock DBW buttons completely, so they are completely useless online, because in the beginning when I said that no online considderation was welcome here, I realy meant it. On the other hand, what does it matter, since the FM1 site so generously screwed over the whole online community by handing out tools to any tom dick and harry to edit buttons, it may not realy matter.
The stock FM's are going to get worked on, because for the most part, they are old and irrelevant. DBW is realy almost a whole new game. It deserves to not be saddled with the sins of it's father.
And of course there will be plenty guys who do not like this at all. that is par for the course, you will never please everybody. But luckily I have never cared about pleasing anybody. If I find happines here on my PC with something I put into my dbw, it is going to stay in there! And if a handfull of the couple of guys on this forum that I trust (the rest are all fucking nuts! have you seen? ??? ) , tell me I fucked up, then we'll fix it.
And so, slowely and sloggingly, will the OFFLINE-PLAYERS SUPERPACK grow and grow up.
In closing: my personal opinion of FW190 fms (this topic is about another plane, but OK), I will say them to you, perhaps to see where my head is.
I like the 190 overall. However, I think she snap-stalls way way too fast. The FW was said to be a smooth turner (even if not a specialist dogfighter), and whould give you plenty of warning before a stall. So, in short, she is a bit finciky for me. I'd like to tone that down by about 10% and relook.
Then , I feel that the acceleration might be a little bit slow, and that it is very hard for this plane to achive it's top speed, in comparison with some other planes. But these last two are just gut feels, and I think a little fast revving may just tweak that away. About the speed itself I cannot complain.
But the first point is the most important for me: it snaps to fast. It is not a freindly plane to turn, at almost any speed. In fact, turning a big overweight G15 109 is much easier. Seems to me this does not compute. What the 190 needs is a little more grace.
And the Ta152 needs some of that also.
what the sprifire needs is a little pinch more WILD. a LaGG3 needs to feel just a bit more dispondent, a mig3 should get a bit more pcsyco, you should expect it to kill you anytime....
ect.
we are in the arena of immersion and tactile and emotional responses. the maths laid a good foundation, but I am afraid from here on, only valuable as a boundary fence. All planes had figures, and those are what they are. But all these planes also had a soul, a character, a temprament, a thing that anyone who had flown them of against them will gladly tell you about. And this talk will always , in most "serious" flight sim places, it seems, be ignored to the benifit of the hard line graph slingers.
And when their mathematically and historically perfect simulation, comes out, everyone sortof sits around, wondering why this perfect sim is not...."magical"...like... that "other" game was....remember it? how the hell did they do that?or that "other other game"...that was sooo cool, you felt you LIVED inside it...mmmmmmagic!
How EVER DID they DO it? And the maths guys are just incapable of saying.
We have gotten very good at the math here in IL2. And now, it is time to look at the magic.
And yes, I know there will be dozens of armchair pilots from all over the world who will scream blue murder because now we make a La7 or a 190 that does not feel and behave like these cats "know" they should. Or even worse: The guys who have just started flying their Cessna's, saying how they now are certain and qualified to say how a Spitifire or P40 must have behaved...
And the humour of it will not be lost on me.
cheers
Piet
Author
Topic: About the Ta152H1 (Read 18137 times)
