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[Wildchild]

Sad to see...

Here's my problem with it though (I agree with Pursuivant)... the guy was 80 years old! People start hanging up their car keys at 80 years old, what was this guy doing flying a P51 Mustang worth over a million dollars?

He veered way off course, climbed, then dove at a very steep angle. If you watch some of the other videos on it, it looked like he was in full control until he entered the dive!? He didn't attempt to correct it, or steer away from the crowd... so sadly, in my opinion, he was either dying, dead, or committing suicide/mass homicide when he entered the dive.

Regards
Friction

They actually found out that he was 6 years younger (74), but i know older guys who are racecar drivers so

but they did report the airplane shaking as it came over them, and it was flying straight when it came towards them. Which tells me he did know something was wrong.

There Is a good chance he did have an issue, but my theory is that there was a CO2 leak into his cockpit. That has happened before at the Reno air races in all sorts of planes from F2G'1's to the F8F Bearcats. He may have realized he was passing out, pulled up and tried to get as far away as possible before he would pass out...

Also, PLEASE EVERYONE change your profile picture to #177 In honor of Jimmy Leward and Galloping Ghost!!!

[Jonzynator]

I was there on Thursday and have a photo of the Ghost, I did see that they were doing some maintenance of the aircraft. As what i have heard from a co-worker, something came of the aircraft causing the pilot to pull of for a mayday, but had no control of the plane coming back down.



Prayers for the family of the pilot and the spectators.

Photo that i have from Thursday

[Pursuivant]

Your right... Im wondering if he had a CO2 problem where it leaked into the cockpit (Happened before), he passes out and leans forward an right on the stick (flipping it) and into the crowd.

At this point, it's anyone's guess, but CO2 intoxication is another good hypothesis. It would also link with the sort of mechanical failure which would make the engine run rough or cut out (although the prop appears to be spinning as the plane goes in).

If it's purely mechanical, then perhaps the pilot was trying to make a hard left turn to get back to the racecourse or the airport, underestimated his power or the amount of drag and suffered a high speed stall that sent him towards the ground with too little altitude to recover. I could easily see a pilot trying to get back to the airfield instead of making a pancake landing which would wreck his plane.

Here's my problem with it though (I agree with Pursuivant)... the guy was 80 years old! People start hanging up their car keys at 80 years old, what was this guy doing flying a P51 Mustang worth over a million dollars?

Actually 74 years old (I corrected my earlier post), but I agree. Of course, people age at different rates.

As to why he was still flying? If you're rich enough to afford a vintage Warbird and the gas and maintenance required to keep it running, you're probably used to getting your own way. Under normal circumstances, he was probably a damned good pilot. Unfortunately, the circumstances which contribute to a fatal crash are seldom "normal" and psychological factors play a big role.

He veered way off course, climbed, then dove at a very steep angle. If you watch some of the other videos on it, it looked like he was in full control until he entered the dive!? He didn't attempt to correct it, or steer away from the crowd... so sadly, in my opinion, he was either dying, dead, or committing suicide/mass homicide when he entered the dive.

He might have been semi-conscious or disoriented. Wildchild's idea that he could have been suffering from CO2 intoxication is quite valid. Fortunately, CO2 levels in the blood at the approximate time of death are something that can be measured, and might survive in even a badly mangled corpse (sorry to be grotesque). Evidence of a heart attack (myocardial infarction), stroke or cerebral hemorrhage will be much harder to detect given the (probable) state of the body.

I'm speculating before the facts, though. There film footage I've seen from the incident is just a couple of seconds and it's very grainy. To get a better sense of what happened you'd need the black box (if Reno racers carry them) and clear footage of the plane during the last 10-20 seconds of flight. To get a full picture, you'd need to interview witnesses, collect wreckage, listen to radio recordings, and do all the other things that the NTSB and FAA do when there's a fatal accident. It's morbid, but I find it absolutely fascinating.

[Jiver67]

When I lived in Reno back in the early to mid nineties, my friends and I would go out to see the air races almost every year. Unfortunately this is not the first fatal accident to happen during this event. I believe several pilots were killed in accidents during the 2007 and 2008 races as well. It is a fun but very dangerous sport! My condolences to the people who were affected.

[SAS~Malone]

Wildchild, this is indeed a tragic event, but i would ask that you please refrain from sensationalising such things with topics marked 'URGENT!' and comments like the following:

Also, PLEASE EVERYONE change your profile picture to #177 In honor of Jimmy Leward and Galloping Ghost!!!

there is nothing urgent about this  - it is simply sad news.
allow folk to do their own mourning (or not) in their own time, and let's not get overly dramatic in the forum. such topics are newsworthy, but not to the point of trying to rally the whole forum to share in your sense of the drama.
thankyou.

[Vampire_pilot]

Tragedy.

playing with fire - might get burned. This is neither a toy nor disney world. It is a dangerous roulette at Reno and that is why 1000s go there.

That said... i have seen a series of photogrpahs where it could be seen that the left hand rear servo tab seemed to be missing. Combined with the report of a Mayday right befor the accident this comes down to technical failure.
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/air-race-crash-in-reno-1316226189-slideshow/p-51-mustang-airplane-shown-upside-down-crashing-photo-031625912.html

*take care - I you don't want to see the crash, don't go there*

[LuseKofte]

Well it probably going to be a discussion about the age thing, but I can understand him . it is not easy to quit flying a P-51 you have at hand. This guy was seartenly not following the flightpath of the others, We will see others vids and maby we can see better if the plane had lost some surface before impact.

looks like he was going for a half loop or somthing in this vid.

#!

[razor1uk]

  Tis' a great shame and tradgedy, but also a miracle that the whole stand wasn't taken out. Heartfelt hopes and wishes of swift recovery to all survivors, families, Reno & effected communties.

  If they decide to ban this, they might as well ban golf, hockey and fishing, let alone any of the main ball sports.

11:43am UK/GMT -- Just watched a live stream from Reno by Nevada's Govenor and Race Officles to press, NTSB have sealed off the affected zones; Pits, northern end of flight line, the main grandstands and connecting tarmac/ramp areas.
  A higher level NTSB investigator is enroute from DC, and more official updates/news expected after midday tommorrow. Spectators, Medical & Police praised for quick thinking and assistance, helped save & process the injured - over 100 medical trained spectators pitched in. All local officials, govenrment staff, officers & services are cooperating fully with NTSB etc.
  Offically (from Reno Staff & Govenor) there was a problem, 177 did leave the course, the grandstand itself wasn't hit in anyway, but debris scattered... local NTSB are allready doing what they can/do all else is speculation until NTSB discloses more findings.
  Reno can have upto 20,000 spectators in its stands (upto 75,000 in designated areas around the site) and it generates on average $1million for a race week weekend in local economy. Reno will consult with all agencies and race classes/pilots to decide on what to do regarding the rest of the weekend qualifying & racing sometime tommorrow.

  Again all thoughts and wishes go to those injured, lost and recovering.

[Wildchild]

Well it probably going to be a discussion about the age thing, but I can understand him . it is not easy to quit flying a P-51 you have at hand. This guy was seartenly not following the flightpath of the others, We will see others vids and maby we can see better if the plane had lost some surface before impact.

looks like he was going for a half loop or somthing in this vid.

#!

Something strange in those 2 pictures... First one is the smoke coming out of the plane, second, where is the pilot?

[Vampire_pilot]

I think I read that the steam is from a boil-off cooling system
It is really odd that the pilot can pull down the head so it cannot be seen anymore. but the border of the cockpit to the glss is quite high in the racer plane. Look a pics  from the take off there you can see what i mean.

i you check pic 2 and 3 in my link you can see what i mean. pic 2 shows the plane right before the crash. you can see that the pilot pulled down his head beween very forwads, bewtween his knees (white helmet) (is he slumped? G-forces???) in pic 3 therefore it seems that there is no pilot.

in pic 2 you can also see the missing part on the left rear elevator area.

[razor1uk]

  Galloping Ghost was using a pressure loss cooling system with no radiator and no belly scoop & rad ducting, Race commentators said, "...it's not smoke, its steam, unlike normal planes which normally smoek when there's a problem, if this P-51 without its belly scoop stops smoking, it means something is wrong..."
 Instead or rad and ducting, and maybe rear fuel tank too, a baffled water tank with heat exchanging piping inside it from engine - smoke is steam being vented that is above safe pressure & temperature escaping; its a total loss cooling system, giving say 20 mins at race speed with reserve for normal flightline & landing running - a pure racing only aircraft unable to fly cross country.

Reno Unlimited Gold Crash via GregP who was there phtographing - no pictures, just a description of his viewpoint

[Stratodog]

That description from GregP and the next guy in the article, plus the photos where the pilot is not visible and/or pinned down says to me that there was a major mechanical malfunction that caused the pilot to completely lose control of the plane and he was probably pinned down or injured while the plane pulled massive "G"s in that loop.  It looks like it lost it's trim tab and at that speed there would have been a massive "up" elevator force that would have been almost impossible to coutner - resulting in the looping type maneuver and the pilot getting pinned down.  The elevator doesn't look like it has much "up" deflection in the photos, however at 450mph indicated airspeed, it wouldn't take much elevator deflection to loop it.  Well, that's what I'm seeing right now - for what it's worth...       Bad, bad day.