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[LuseKofte]

It is going to be a lot of merges and removal of subtypes among BF-109, Spitfire, FW-190, giving available slots to mods for own taste. It will be done in a way that should not affect campaigns and missions in a big way if none what so ever

[FANATIC MODDER]

With the engine limited to 1.3 ata the 109s would routinely lose fights against P-40s and P-39s that they should actually be winning.

The 1.3 G-2 doesnt' "move" at all. I tried some old missions made for the stock G-2 and the plane had problems of catching up Pe-2s and Yak-7s. It's indeed slower than the F-4  and rather slower even than the stock G-6.

removal of subtypes among BF-109, Spitfire, FW-190

Bad news! I hope not! Now their line is complete and very representative. I wonder what can be deleted among them. Why destroy something that is almost perfect?

[agracier]

removal of subtypes among BF-109, Spitfire, FW-190

Bad news! I hope not! Now their line is complete and very representative. I wonder what can be deleted among them. Why destroy something that is almost perfect?

Nothing will be destroyed ... most or all of the subtypes will be available as a separate install. So anyone who wishes, can install every plane that is now available. The removal of some subtypes will only be for the default install.

All the rest of the 44 bf-109's, 37 Spitfires, 26 Fw-190's and several other planes will still be available to those who wish them, but as a separate install option.

That is a very simple solution and for those of us who are not totally enamored of these over-represented planes, it will leave more possibilities to add new mod planes as they come out.

The three planes mentioned above already take up around 100 slots, and I believe (though not certain) that there are between 600 to 800 slots otherwise available ...

To paraphrase: Never in the history of flight simming, have so many slots, been allocated to so few planes ... ha ha

[Shardur]

Is this

https://www.sas1946.com/downloads/essentialsas/dbw/DBW_Mergelist_1.6.txt

the complete list of planes to be removed?
If so, this is way less than i expected (i actually expected about a third of the 109s to be removed and added to a 109 package).
The only thing i will be missing from that list is the Bf-109F-2U (maybe also the Bf-109T and Ju-87C), i hope the add-on to add it in again will not be hard to find.
The list above will have basically no effect on normal gameplay what so ever and would only effect hardcore enthusiasts.

PS: Can we get the default skins of the removed planes as optional skins on planes that stay in?

PPS: On the other hand i don't really understand why the 109G5 / G5AS is staying in when the only difference to the G6 / G6AS should be the pressurized cockpit that actually has no effect what so ever in game. I do know that the G5 also has the GM1 boost system but as far as i can tell that is broken since enabling it will show no effect on the instruments (you should see a difference in engine pressure and prop pitch if the system was working) and the only effect you can observe is the engine dying after a while (depending on hight sooner of later). Same also goes for the G3 / G4 where the only difference for the purpose of the game is the broken GM1 system.

[OberstDanjeje]

With the GM1 you have to use it at hight altitude, dont remember if more then 5.000m or more than 7.500m

[agracier]

It is a good thing they didn't let me loose in deciding which planes to remove or not ... this list is a very conservative weeding out of planes ... and I can only see about 4 or 5 that I would have preferred keeping in ... which is not very many indeed.

Seems like it is a well balanced culling, which in most instances will be easily remedied if the player so wishes by re-installing his favorite planes.

And besides, there is nothing mandatory about installing 1.7 when it comes out. Just remain with 1.6 if that version suits you better. There are still many players here who swear by 4.09 and they seem to accept how things are.

Some of the other issues brought up here about engine power and such, are really a question of FM characteristics ...

[Shardur]

More than 7000m but i still see no effect if i use it. But even if I am wrong abpout the GM1 system that still leaves the 109G5AS that has no boost system and no difference in therms of the game to the 109G6AS.

[FANATIC MODDER]

... this list is a very conservative weeding out of planes ... and I can only see about 4 or 5 that I would have preferred keeping in ... which is not very many indeed.

Why I don't feel the same? In this list there are planes that I feel unhappy that they 're gone. And I don't agree with the "you can always downloaded it" answer. It is well known that NOBODY will use extra (or 'theme package') planes for creating missions/campaigns. Why should they? For me, planes that have a place in historical campaigns should NOT be deleted. That are:


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bf-110C-7      
Bf-110D-3      
Fw-190F-1      
Fw-190F-2      
Fw-190G-1      
Fw-190G-2      
SPITXIIearly      
SpitfireMkXVIe      
SpitfireMkXI      
I-16type18-BS     
Pe-2series206   
Pe-3M         
P-38J-10-LO   
SNJ_5C      
A6M-NLate      
R-XIIITerh      
B-25D-20NC       
B-25J-15NA       

--------------------------------------

[OberstDanjeje]

So you prefer having those plane and not the new one?
The slots number are quite limited and there is no way to add more plane

[HundertzehnGustav]

*Bad news! I hope not! Now their line is complete and very representative. I wonder what can be deleted among them. Why destroy something that is almost perfect?*

because we are running out of space, simple as that.
40 109s?
40 spits?
20 Hurricanes?
60 190s?
30 110s?
5 fiesler storches?
10 Ju-52s?
20 Stukas?
20 He-111?
10 FW-200?

come on...  comeon... common... sense?
how many planes would we end up with? 2500?

i mean... it would be awesome... but i would lneed to learn a 5000 page "planes of WWII" Book just for the Game, in order to properly exploit the  plane features and different strenghts...
and then the manuals of the individual planes.
and still be a suckky pilot...
?

[HundertzehnGustav]

so just go and create your own mod package if you are not happy with what the SAS crew provides...

This aint not "german planes of WWII" or "the ETO war and nothing else" mod.

Hmm... that would be cool to have, wouldnt it...

[agracier]

There seem to have been a lot of these that I've missed ... 10 Ju-52's ? Never knew there were that many.

But on another note ... notice how the above list by HundertzehnGustav, with the exception of the Spits and Hurricanes, are all Luftwaffe planes? All those additions to what is a Russian designed flight sim ... there has to be some kind of irony in this somewhere ... maybe it is time to equalize the balance a teeny weeny bit.

There is a whole world of colorful, wacky, ugly, obscure, beautiful and sleek looking aircraft out there designed in the 1930's and 1940's ... designs that when you first see them in a profile or photo set you to imagining flights of adventure and discovery along the byways of history. That's what many modders are doing now ... getting some of the tiny fraction of these forgotten aircraft into Il-2 ... that is something to really look forward to.

And for that more open slots are needed.