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[Thunda]

This is great, KB. You can tell by the amount and type of replys that its a well thought about issue, and tackling a 'hole in the game' as Le0ne puts it. Just the idea that we can get moving shipping on rivers is exciting, but getting AI to strafe them is the icing on the cake- will make for many realistic scenarios in most theatres- particularly late war in the West. Sounds as though you are making good progress. If you want anything tested, please dont hesitate to ask.

Keep up the good work!

[KiwiBiggles]

Cheers fellas!

I'll have something for you to test soonish - just gotta tie all the loose ends together, demo mission, two test missions (coastal and riverine), readme/tutorial (which I'm discovering takes longer than the mod itself  ).

I'm pretty happy with it myself, and looking forward to adding it to my custom missions! I think you guys will like it too, but remember there are a few limitations built into the game and we're just working our way around them with this mod.  Still, I reckon it works pretty good with just a dash of imagination. 

Once I'm done, I'll give it a quick whirl in a clean DBW install too.  I think it'll work fine 'cos it's pretty simple as far as the game mechanics go, but you never know?

[Flying H]

Passing under bridges, I think will not be a problem, sinceyou can fly under any bridge, except the russian wooden bridges! This soundslike a lot of fun KB! Taking on barges on the west front canals and rivers beside taking out trains and supply columns with Typhoons!!

[LuseKofte]

I am in the prossess of renewing the Default QMB missions in DBW, due to issues in FMB. And I am very interested in this MOD. Is these new object's in the Chief.ini and so on?
If so I got to get those objects in the new DBW buildt in order to use them.
Very needed mod , thank you for this 

[KiwiBiggles]

Hi LeOne

Yes, chief.ini, stationary.ini and technics.ini. 

I have them with separate cloned java.classes at the moment so they are easy to add to existing installs.  If the objects are worthy and found to merit inclusion in DBW, I'd suggest writing them back into the main stationary.class and car.class to cut down on unnecessary java files. 

I had a good night's sleep last night, and have stocked up on coffee - so I'll try to push thru and put up a beta tonite. 

Cheers for now
Kiwi

[KiwiBiggles]

Stationary Steamer,Trawler and Barges - post AI strafe attack with Plutonium Effects.

If Plutonium effects work on your install - they really bring this mod to life. 

[KiwiBiggles]

Well, I didn't get it finished tonite.

Bad news first... I'm not really happy with how the Steamer stands up to cannon fire.

Good news though... the way the Barge and Trawler stand up to machine gun fire has turned out MUCH better than I ever hoped.    First, I found out there's hardly any difference in-game between the .30 caliber and .50 caliber machine guns, at least when it comes to strafing these objects.  So I decided to 'tune' the armor for the Barge and the Trawler the same.  I really like the way it's turned out.  The Barge and Trawler are difficult to destroy, but not impossible, sometimes requiring multiple strafing runs to destroy, whether by the player, or by the AI.  It really does seem quite realistic to me, and much better than I ever expected.  So here's where the tuning ended up:

[Stationary_Barge2]
Description    Stationary_Barge2
Icon           shipDestroyer
// Models
MeshSummer         3do/Coastal_Attack_Mod/Barge2/hier.him
// Panzer
PanzerType  Car
PanzerSubtype  2.9
PanzerBodyFront            0.011
Explode     CarFuel

[Stationary_Trawler]
Description    Stationary_Trawler
Icon           shipDestroyer
// Models
MeshSummer         3do/Coastal_Attack_Mod/Trawler/hier.him
// Panzer
PanzerType  Car
PanzerSubtype  2.9
PanzerBodyFront            0.011
Explode     CarFuel

[Barge2]
Description    Barge2
Icon           shipDestroyer
// Models
MeshSummer         3do/Coastal_Attack_Mod/Barge2/hier.him
// Panzer
PanzerType  Car
PanzerSubtype  2.9
PanzerBodyFront            0.011
Explode     CarFuel
// Moving
SoundMove      models.Car
SpeedAverage    22.0
SpeedMax        30.0
SpeedBack        5.0
RotSpeedMax     60.0             // ??
RotInvisAng     65.0
BestSpace          13.0
AfterCollisionDist  6.1
CommandInterval     1.6
StayInterval        1.5

[Trawler]
Description    Trawler
Icon           shipDestroyer
// Models
MeshSummer         3do/Coastal_Attack_Mod/Trawler/hier.him
// Panzer
PanzerType  Car
PanzerSubtype  2.9
PanzerBodyFront            0.011
Explode     CarFuel
// Moving
SoundMove      models.Car
SpeedAverage    22.0
SpeedMax        30.0
SpeedBack        5.0
RotSpeedMax     60.0             // ??
RotInvisAng     65.0
BestSpace          13.0
AfterCollisionDist  6.1
CommandInterval     1.6
StayInterval        1.5

Not so with the Steamer, and here's where you guys may be able to help.  I thought I would just increase the armor value a bit for the Steamer and I'd get a similar great result against cannon fire as with the Barge and Trawler against machine guns, but that's not how its worked out.  Here's where I've got to so far, and still the Steamer is too easy to blow up with cannon fire for my liking:

[Steamer]
Description    Steamer
Icon           shipDestroyer
// Models
MeshSummer         3do/Coastal_Attack_Mod/Steamer/hier.him
// Panzer
PanzerType  Car
PanzerSubtype  2.9        <---------------------------- Maybe this value can be changed? Is there a different sub-type for 'cannon' armor ??
PanzerBodyFront            2.0 <----------------------------------- This just doesn't look right to me??
Explode     CarFuel
// Moving
SoundMove      models.Car
SpeedAverage    22.0
SpeedMax        30.0
SpeedBack        5.0
RotSpeedMax     60.0             // ??
RotInvisAng     65.0
BestSpace          13.0
AfterCollisionDist  6.1
CommandInterval     1.6
StayInterval        1.5

Has anyone had any experience with this, maybe working on tanks?

At the moment, the Barge and Trawler are just about perfect, but the Steamer is way off, it's like I'm missing a trick somewhere?

There are these cryptic tips at the top of technics.ini, but they don't clue me in much. 

// Panzer's thickness (in meters). For pure artillery objects
// you can specify 'PanzerBodyFront' only.
PanzerBodyFront            0.05
PanzerBodyBack             0.05
PanzerBodySide             0.05
PanzerBodyTop              0.05
PanzerHead                 0.05
PanzerHeadTop              0.05
PanzerSubtype          0    ; 0 - 7

The armour thickness makes pretty good sense for the machine guns, but 20mm shells slicing thru 2.0 meters of steel? 

What do you guys think?

I'm gonna catch some ZZZ's.  Nite all.
Kiwi

Edit: actually, there's quite a lot of info in the technics.ini - I need to go over it again, and look at a few tanks for clues, I'm sure the answer must be in there.  I'll sleep on it first though. 

[LuseKofte]

A good idea and somthing that put more juice in the AI, is always welcomed in DBW . And it is more like we would ask you about using this. This is a musthave for a offlinepack and to be able to use it , it must go in there
When you consider it Done and made a topic of it I will send the link as an request to Cirx if you not beat me to it 
For DBW users it is a lot of work every patching to re enter the ini entryes, that is why we need it to be in

[KiwiBiggles]

Okie dokie.

I think it will be a simple fix to get an interesting 'armor' value for the Steamer.  I want it to be a challenging target for cannon armed fighters, similar to how the Barge and Trawler are a good challenge for machine-gun equipped planes.

Increasing the armor thickness for the Steamer just wasn't making any difference against cannons, even at 2.0 meters armor thickness the first 20mm round on target would blow it up!  Not good at all.

So... I've studied the technics.ini this morning and it appears there is another armor parameter calculated by the game engine.  The second parameter seems to be 'PanzerBodyFront' - the armor thickness in meters - which is what I've been tuning. 0.011 metres has produced the effect I was after for the Barge and Trawler.  I haven't bothered with the top or side armor since I consider these to be 'all-aspect' targets, so the 'front' value is the default all-round value too.

The first parameter however, appears to be 'PanzerSubType'.  It isn't clear what the parameter actually is, I'm guessing it's a factor in some sort of algorithm or look-up table, but that doesn't really matter as we can see how it works in-game for other objects.  Apparently the PanzerSubType value can be from 0.0 to 7.0. 

All the coastal objects in this mod have inherited a PanzerSubType value of 2.9 from the 'Blitz Fuel Truck' I used to get the ball rolling.  It's a good value in-game for the Barge and Trawler, but not what we want for the Steamer.

If we look at the PanzerSubType values for German tanks in the game we see this sort of progression:

PzIIF: PanzerSubType    2.0
         PanzerBodyFront  0.030

PzIIIN: PanzerSubtype    3.0
          PanzerBodyFront  0.050

PzIVJ:  PanzerSubtype    3.2
          PanzerBodyFront  0.050

PzVA:  PanzerSubtype    5
          PanzerBodyFront  0.085         

From experience, machine-gun fighters, and cannon fighters, will strafe PzV's, but they're pretty difficult to kill, in fact I don't really recall a machine-gun fighter killing a Panther but I have seen them strafe.  That would be a pretty good outcome for the Steamer, so when I get home tonite I'll give the Steamer the armor values of a Panther and see how it works out in the game.  Fingers crossed it'll rock - and this thing is nearly done!

Here's the thing.  Assuming it all comes together, these values are a peice of cake for the player to customise himself if he wants, to get just the results he likes for his favourite plane and gun.  Just the sort of thing I like.  For other objects too, like your favourite tank.  Nice huh?

Ciao
Kiwi

[KiwiBiggles]

Ok.  The Steamer.  I didn't really get it where I wanted... I had a quick try at cloning the tank and artillery java classes to see if it would help but it was getting way away from the simple but fun mod I had in mind.  I was gonna drop the Steamer alltogether, but in the end I decided to just include it with the same settings as the Barge and Trawler... people can try it out for themselves and see how they like it.

Back to sorting out the loose ends.  Next post is a bit of a  'tutorial'. 

[Thunda]

Good work, KB
- dont give up now the end is in sight!!!

[KiwiBiggles]

Some 'advanced' tips for plotting waypoints in the FMB.

Lot's of you guys will know these tricks already, but I'll post 'em here anyway 'cos they're part and parcel of using this mod.

Here's a simple example to set up a basic coastal strafing target:



1.  Set a 'Destroy Ground' target objective.  I've set this one at 50 percent destruction to accomplish the mission and made it a secondary objective since the primary objective for mine is always to get back to home plate alive.  Hint: you get more points for 'Hidden' objectives.  Make the objective big enough to cover your 'area of operations' but you can adjust or move it later anyway.



2. Select any 'Ships' object and plot the way-points for your moving coastal objects.  Keep in mind your timings.  All we're after in this step are the waypoints.  This is the most important step, so take your time to get your waypoints right.



3. Select your moving coastal objects from the 'Vehicles' menu.  The FMB will only let you plot them on land - so go ahead as illustrated.  All we're after this time are the objects themselves.



4. You can add in your stationary coastal objects from the 'Stationary Objects' menu. They will plot fine pretty much anywhere.

5. Save your mission and close the FMB.  You do not need to close IL-2.

6. Go into your IL-2 root folder and open the .mis file where you saved it (mine's at IL-2 Sturmovik 1946/Missions/Single/GB/My/My_Test_Mission01.mis).  It will look something like this (the bit we're interested in is red):

[MAIN]
  MAP Normandy/load2.ini
  TIME 12.0
  CloudType 0
  CloudHeight 1000.0
  player RAF_No486SQN00
  army 1
  playerNum 0
[Wing]
  RAF_No486SQN00
[RAF_No486SQN00]
  Planes 4
  Skill 1
  Class air.MOSQUITO6
  Fuel 100
  weapons default
[RAF_No486SQN00_Way]
  NORMFLY 89972.30 83954.19 500.00 300.00 &0
  NORMFLY 88524.45 80917.40 500.00 300.00 &0
  NORMFLY 86758.32 77582.76 500.00 300.00 &0
  NORMFLY 75853.70 78793.05 500.00 300.00 &0
  NORMFLY 70565.43 85030.49 500.00 300.00 &0
[Chiefs]
  0_Chief Ships.G5 1 0 2 1.0
  1_Chief Ships.G5 1 0 2 1.0
  2_Chief Ships.G5 1 0 2 1.0
  3_Chief Vehicles.Trawler 2
  4_Chief Vehicles.Trawler 2
  5_Chief Vehicles.Trawler 2
[0_Chief_Road]
  89663.42 77739.64 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  89155.84 77145.26 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88588.13 76931.53 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87833.38 76844.70 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87071.96 76971.60 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  86724.65 77826.53 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  86938.38 78507.80 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87820.02 79022.09 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88541.37 78781.64 120.00
[1_Chief_Road]
  89623.34 77986.77 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  89242.67 77546.01 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88708.34 77198.70 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88120.59 77058.43 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87425.95 77158.62 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87045.24 77766.41 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87272.34 78280.71 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87793.30 78668.10 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88234.13 78648.06 120.00
[2_Chief_Road]
  89556.54 78200.48 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  89235.99 77846.57 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88735.06 77479.22 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88147.30 77372.35 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87612.97 77539.33 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87452.67 77906.68 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87779.95 78294.07 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88401.11 78394.26 120.00
[3_Chief_Road]
  88634.75 75096.31 120.00 0 2 3.055555582046509
  89588.77 74863.46 120.00
[4_Chief_Road]
  88394.50 74769.65 120.00 0 2 3.055555582046509
  89388.13 74631.26 120.00
[5_Chief_Road]
  88261.07 74449.67 120.00 0 2 3.055555582046509
  89234.59 74331.79 120.00
[NStationary]
  0_Static vehicles.stationary.HQ_Attack_Mod$HQ_Tent 2 75817.60 78849.07 360.00 0.0
  1_Static vehicles.stationary.HQ_Attack_Mod$HQ_Tent 2 75836.74 78869.76 360.00 0.0
  2_Static vehicles.stationary.HQ_Attack_Mod$HQ_Tent 2 75863.88 78844.33 360.00 0.0
  3_Static vehicles.stationary.HQ_Attack_Mod$HQ_Tent 2 75843.59 78830.22 360.00 0.0
  8_Static vehicles.stationary.Campfire$CampfireAirfield 0 75842.02 78851.74 676.27 0.0
  9_Static vehicles.stationary.Smoke$Smoke6 0 75841.63 78851.77 676.27 2.82
  4_Static vehicles.stationary.HQ_Attack_Mod$Stationary_Barge2 2 88681.63 77886.64 360.00 0.0
  5_Static vehicles.stationary.HQ_Attack_Mod$Stationary_Barge2 2 87452.67 76744.51 360.00 0.0
  6_Static vehicles.stationary.HQ_Attack_Mod$Stationary_Barge2 2 87265.66 78968.66 360.00 0.0
[Buildings]
  0_bld House$46Furniture 1 75846.91 78826.43 706.08
  1_bld House$46Radio 1 75821.93 78851.22 676.27
  2_bld House$46TRBoxes 1 75859.34 78853.58 676.27
  3_bld House$46TRBoxes 1 75861.04 78854.02 627.95
  4_bld House$46GRBoxes 1 75822.71 78863.89 676.27
  5_bld House$Human_01 1 75845.16 78851.30 532.25
  6_bld House$Human_02 1 75844.89 78852.67 502.78
  7_bld House$Human_05 1 75859.58 78854.70 436.16
  8_bld House$Human_05 1 75823.89 78863.97 579.95
  9_bld House$Human_09 1 75824.29 78852.02 707.98
  10_bld House$Human_06 1 75822.80 78851.77 716.25
  11_bld House$Human_02 1 75859.59 78852.96 596.07
  12_bld House$KitchenRU 1 75844.22 78847.61 548.71
[Target]
  1 2 0 0 1000 75837 78848 100
  1 1 0 0 500 87908 77709 1600
[Bridge]
[House]

7. Delete the waypoints for the coastal objects (in green) in this case they are Chief Vehicles.Trawler(s), or 3_Chief_Road to 5_Chief_Road:

[Chiefs]
  0_Chief Ships.G5 1 0 2 1.0
  1_Chief Ships.G5 1 0 2 1.0
  2_Chief Ships.G5 1 0 2 1.0
  3_Chief Vehicles.Trawler 2
  4_Chief Vehicles.Trawler 2
  5_Chief Vehicles.Trawler 2
[0_Chief_Road]
  89663.42 77739.64 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  89155.84 77145.26 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88588.13 76931.53 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87833.38 76844.70 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87071.96 76971.60 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  86724.65 77826.53 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  86938.38 78507.80 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87820.02 79022.09 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88541.37 78781.64 120.00
[1_Chief_Road]
  89623.34 77986.77 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  89242.67 77546.01 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88708.34 77198.70 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88120.59 77058.43 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87425.95 77158.62 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87045.24 77766.41 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87272.34 78280.71 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87793.30 78668.10 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88234.13 78648.06 120.00
[2_Chief_Road]
  89556.54 78200.48 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  89235.99 77846.57 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88735.06 77479.22 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88147.30 77372.35 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87612.97 77539.33 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87452.67 77906.68 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87779.95 78294.07 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88401.11 78394.26 120.00
[3_Chief_Road]
  88634.75 75096.31 120.00 0 2 3.055555582046509
  89588.77 74863.46 120.00
[4_Chief_Road]
  88394.50 74769.65 120.00 0 2 3.055555582046509
  89388.13 74631.26 120.00
[5_Chief_Road]
  88261.07 74449.67 120.00 0 2 3.055555582046509
  89234.59 74331.79 120.00

8. Cut the ship waypoints (red, the Chief Ships.G5 or 0_Chief_Road to 2_Chief_Road) and paste them in place of the Trawler waypoints like so:

[Chiefs]
  0_Chief Ships.G5 1 0 2 1.0
  1_Chief Ships.G5 1 0 2 1.0
  2_Chief Ships.G5 1 0 2 1.0
  3_Chief Vehicles.Trawler 2
  4_Chief Vehicles.Trawler 2
  5_Chief Vehicles.Trawler 2
[0_Chief_Road]

[1_Chief_Road]

[2_Chief_Road]

[3_Chief_Road]
  89663.42 77739.64 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  89155.84 77145.26 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88588.13 76931.53 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87833.38 76844.70 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87071.96 76971.60 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  86724.65 77826.53 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  86938.38 78507.80 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87820.02 79022.09 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88541.37 78781.64 120.00
[4_Chief_Road]
  89623.34 77986.77 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  89242.67 77546.01 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88708.34 77198.70 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88120.59 77058.43 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87425.95 77158.62 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87045.24 77766.41 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87272.34 78280.71 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87793.30 78668.10 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88234.13 78648.06 120.00
[5_Chief_Road]
  89556.54 78200.48 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  89235.99 77846.57 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88735.06 77479.22 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88147.30 77372.35 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87612.97 77539.33 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87452.67 77906.68 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87779.95 78294.07 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88401.11 78394.26 120.00

9. Delete the left over code from the Ships your .mis should look like so, three Trawler Chiefs and Roads, all at sea so to speak.   

[Chiefs]
  3_Chief Vehicles.Trawler 2
  4_Chief Vehicles.Trawler 2
  5_Chief Vehicles.Trawler 2
[3_Chief_Road]
  89663.42 77739.64 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  89155.84 77145.26 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88588.13 76931.53 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87833.38 76844.70 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87071.96 76971.60 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  86724.65 77826.53 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  86938.38 78507.80 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87820.02 79022.09 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88541.37 78781.64 120.00
[4_Chief_Road]
  89623.34 77986.77 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  89242.67 77546.01 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88708.34 77198.70 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88120.59 77058.43 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87425.95 77158.62 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87045.24 77766.41 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87272.34 78280.71 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87793.30 78668.10 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88234.13 78648.06 120.00
[5_Chief_Road]
  89556.54 78200.48 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  89235.99 77846.57 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88735.06 77479.22 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88147.30 77372.35 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87612.97 77539.33 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87452.67 77906.68 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  87779.95 78294.07 120.00 0 2 8.333333969116211
  88401.11 78394.26 120.00

Save and close your .mis file, and reopen the mission in FMB:



So with just a little bit of effort we've set up an objective with three Barges at anchor and three Trawlers under sail.  Note you won't be able to move the waypoints for the trawler now, they're locked in the .mis file.  You can easily swap out the Trawlers with the Steamer or Barge from the Vehicles menu though, right here in the FMB.  Double check your timings (a run thru at 8x speed is often handy to check timing on bigger ops).

NOTE: Your AI wingies will strafe this coastal shipping objective for example with the command: Tab - 2/Red Flight - 6/Ground Targets - 1/Attack All ... which is nice and easy to remember, even for a Dumpkopf like me! 

Tomorrow we'll deal with Riverine ops (or even beaching your Landing Craft, or fording rivers with your Tanks and Trucks... hopefully!)

Cheers
KB