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[Kopfdorfer]

Where is the Wunder Flieger?

                       
Firstly apologies in advance...I'm on a library computer with a time limit, so this request will start as bare bones and I'll add proper support info later today.

This is my big request for the new year.
Consider the Ju88 variants...
Ju88 Prototype



First thanks to all the modders who have contributed to bringing us the Ju88A17 torp and the Ju88C6a and C6b.
(and now the A-13, too!!!)

I am hereby entreating the modders out there to consider building a Ju88 pack similar to the other aircraft type packs out there already. The Ju88 was by far the most versatile tool in the Luftwaffe armoury, and is without a single doubt the most underrepresented important aircraft type in the Il2 aircraft lexicon.



...after all we have the Lerch and the Do335 Pfeil, don't we??

Though the Ju88 production records are incomplete - many were damaged destroyed or lost in the allied advances of 1944-45 - the Ju88 is known to have been produced in numbers around 15,000 units of all variant types, broken down roughly as follows by year :

Year              Bombers             Fighters           Other Types

1939                 69                    --                      --
1940              1816                    62                    330
1941              2146                    66                    568
1942              2270                   257                    567
1943              2160                   706                    394
1944                661                  2516                     52
1945                --                      355                    --

This breaks down to 9,122 bombers, 3,962 fighters, and 1,911 other variants for a total of 14,995!!!

This is a higher production than for the B17, B25, P38, P39, P40, F4F, F6F, F4U, all British built aircraft currently in game other than the Spitfire, LaGG3, La5, La7, Pe2, and all Japanese aircraft types. You get the point.



Nice view of Ju88A-4 with open gondola






The Ju88 manufacture went through the following major variant types :
Series A bomber variants
Series C fighter/intruder/night fighter variants
Series D Long Range Recon variants
Ju88D
Series R (first purpose built) Night Fighter
Series P Heavy Ground/Maritime Attack variant
Series G Night Fighters*                                * exception G-8 zerstoerer based on series H airframe
Series H Extreme Long Range Maritime variant
Series S Schnell(fast) Bomber
Series T Schnell(fast) Recon

which were further subdivided into a plethora of sub-variants primarily due to varied powerplant, armament and radar fittings.

Ju88 featuring FuG202 Lichtenstein Radar


(I am not suggesting that we attempt to create many variants all at once ; what I am suggesting is a staged pack development.

The Ju88 saw essentially 5 airframe types developed during WWII.

The first used operationally was the A-1 bomber variant.
This variant is very important, as it was the only Ju88 to see service in the opening days of WWII, including the Polish Campaign, the Phoney war period (especially over the North Sea and English Channel),  the Norwegian Campaign, the first part of the Mediterranean Campaign.


The airframe was used later as the basis for the later A-13 ground attack variant (I believe as a means of finding a functional use for the remaining Ju88A-1s in service when they were outstripped by the A5, and A4 variants), and the first production Ju88 heavy fighter, the C-2.

A-1/A-5
A-4

The second, and obviously most important airframe was the A4. Though the A4 was intended to replace the A-1 in service, the unavailability of the new engine for it determined that the Ju88A5 was to see service first, and was the key operational variant until the end of 1941, when A4 production did eventually catch up.

A-1 - Rear Canopy Detail from CoD


A-5 - Note Early Canopy Details


Comparative A4/A5

This means however , that there is not a historically representative Ju88 bomber currently modelled for the 1940-41 period. The A4 airframe significance is indicated by its use in the following variant families :   Ju88C, Ju88D, Ju88P, Ju88R, Ju88S and Ju88T

Ju88S - note aerodynamic glasshouse nose construction


The third airframe type was the Ju88G which featured an enlarged and squared off tail fin/rudder unit , and BMW 801 radials in place of the Jumo inlines.

Ju88G - I think Ranwers has one of these underway


 
This airframe in turn spawned the (fourth) ultra long range maritime patrol H series
(and the G-8 Zerstoerer) which featured a fuselage extension of 3.25 metres,
The H-1 was a lightly armed recon aircraft, the H-2 was a long range heavy day fighter with a fearsome forward firing armament of 6 x 20mm MG151 in lieu of the H-1 radar and camera installations.




and the (fifth) Ju88G7 series of subvariants which incorporated the extended wingspan and pointed wing tips of the Ju188 series.



more info to come...out of time now


As I stated before, I do not expect, and am not requesting every Ju88 that ever flew to be fashioned, but I am suggesting that a Ju88 pack in the style of the Bf109s, the FW190s, the Bf110s and the Tainan packs be started as an ongoing endeavour.
This aircraft should not be as underrepresented as it is.

A good representative pack build would be :

Ju88A-1   very significant for early WWII. Considerable rebuild
Ju88A-13 A-1 airframe, remove dive brakes, add waffenbehalter (underwing gunpods) and some engine/fuel tank armour
Ju88A-5   in two variants : early and late. A-4 airframe with reduced crew protection and armour, add etc 250 bomb racks outboard of both engines.
early model only 3 defensive MGs
late model : "Late production aircraft features a double bulged rear dorsal canopy, which would become standard on later aircraft. This allowed the aircraft to carry two rear dorsal guns, at this stage either MG 15s or MG 81Js. The A-5 also saw a move towards more flexible guns in the ventral position, with some aircraft carrying MG 81Zs or MG 131s."
Ju88D   
The D-1 and D-2 entered service out of sequence. The D-1 was based on the improved A-4, which itself entered service after the less advanced A-5. The planned D-1 was thus delayed into 1941, while the D-2 filled the gap.
The D-2 was the first production version of the D-series. It carried its cameras in the rear-bomb bay, and was similar to the D-0. It appeared during the summer of 1940. 
The D-1 carried its cameras in a new location, behind the rear bomb bay. This allowed it to carry the same internal payload as the A-4, including the full range of internal fuel tanks, giving it significantly longer range than the D-0 and D-2.
Incorporation should only require modification of performance (range) and FM/DM of A-4 and A-5.
Ju88C-2  First operational Zerstoerer variant conversion from the A-1 Airframe
             FM/DM required based on A-1
             3 x fixed forward MG17, 1 x 20mm fixed forward MGFF,
             2 defensive MG 15s one each in dorsal and ventral positions
             550 kg bombload
Ju88C-4  A-4 airframe, solid nose with 2 x 20mm fixed forward MGFF in gondola
Ju88R-1  Ju88C-6b airframe , BMW 801MA or 801C 1600 hp radial engines
             first purpose built nacht jaeger
Ju88G-1  squared tailfin/rudder shape, BMW 801D radial engines
Ju88G-4  first purpose built Junkers Nachtjaeger to have schrage musik as part of default
             armament
Ju88G-6  single slot - G-6a, G-6b, G6c variants represented by loadout, radar and resultant
             FM differences
             BMW 801G 1,700 hp engines
Ju88H     single slot - H-1, H-2 variants represented by loadout, radar, camera and
             resultant FM/DM differences. A-4 airframe, with a fuselage extension of 3.25
             metres,  added fuel : range of 5,150 km
Ju88P     single slot - P-1, P-2, P-3, and P-4 variants represented by loadout, and resultant
             FM/DM differences
Ju88S-1  single slot - S-1 1944 Schnell Bomber with aerodynamic hard nose
             BMW 801G boosted radial powerplants
             1,730 hp @ 1,525m
             and nitrous injection providing  610 kph @ 8,000m ,
             a single defensive MG131(13mm)
             and T-1 photo recon version of the S-1

This could be further reduced to

Pack 1.  A-1 and subvariants A-13 and C-2

Pack 2.  A-4 sub  variants A-5, C-4, D-1, R-1, P, and S
           

Pack 3.  H    variants  H-1 , H-2 and G-8

and

Pack 4.  G variants G-1, G-4, G-6a,b , G-6c with Jum0213A inline, and G-7
            G-1
       


Some shots from the office





Ju88B-0/A-1

Ju88C

Ju88D-1

             
Say, that's a nice bomb! okay, okay, droptank!


This man needs his horse!


                       

...and so do we!!!
Kopfdorfer

[Pursuivant]

The "bomb" in the third photo from the bottom is actually a drop tank.

That quibble aside, I agree that it's odd that one of the toughest, most common and most successful of the German bombers hasn't gotten more love from modders.

We have every variant of Bf-109 and Fw-190 the Luftwaffe ever flew, and then some, but there are only 3-4 Ju-88 variants in the game. It would be an easy project for a novice modder to add more Ju-88 variants. (Same for other long-lived medium bomber types, like the A-20, B-25, Mosquito and G4M "Betty".)

Edit: It occurs to me that it might be possible to reduce the number of slots even further by creating various sizes of "invisible" internal undroppable "droptanks" and "cargo" containers. This would simulate variants which incorporated auxiliary fuel tanks and extra equipment (e.g., cameras, life rafts, radio equipment) which doesn't appear in the game. That way, even more production blocs could be modeled using the loadout menu.

Even better, such objects wouldn't be limited to the Ju-88; they'd work for any plane with a fuselage or wing thick enough to hide the 3d mesh.
 

[OberstDanjeje]

Agree with you, really like the Ju88

[Kopfdorfer]

If I'm correct, the simplest of all is to transform the A-4s into A-5 early and A-5 late.

Recipe
Take the Ju88A-4 model.
Add 2 x ETC 250kg hardpoints outboard of each engine.

for the A-5 early :
reduce defensive MG armament to 3 MGs
Alter FM and DM to reflect less powerful engines (Jumo211B-1,G-1 882kw) , and less armour.
Simplify the Rear Canopy structure for the earlier version.

Ju88A-1(scale model) featuring early type rear canopy

Ju88A-5 late with late version cockpit - divided MG mounts



for the A-5 late :
retain the defensive MG armament of the A-4 ( or if desired make one of intermediate potency between A-5 early and A-4 - this is historically supported),
strengthen landing gear
add crew protection, and alter FM accordingly.


Serve Cold on a leaden sky.





Skin the  *%&%&# out of them and fly fly fly.

Kopfdorfer

[Pursuivant]

Any breakdown on production numbers?

At a minimum, it would be nice to have the A-1 variant for Blitzkrieg/BoB scenarios, a D variant as a zerstoerer/target for U.S. escort fighters and a H variant as an anti-shipping/strike plane. At least one G variant has been modeled already.

[Gaston]

Many very interesting photographs, Kopfdorfer ! Thanks !

[SAS~Malone]

yeah, great pics, great plane, would be good to see more of 'em...

[Kopfdorfer]

Hey Purs,   

As far as I am concerned, any addition to the Ju88s would be greatly appreciated and is sorely needed.
I agree that the A-1 would be the best start, but it's also a significant build, due to differently constructed cockpit greenhouse and wing shape and length, as well as FM/DM.

The A-5 (late) is the easiest first step , I believe, as it uses a Ju88A-4 airframe(plus outboard hardpoints). It also has the benefit of being the most produced and most used until the A-4 surpassed it in numbers some time in 1942.
Next logical phase is the A-5 (early) with the simpler canopy, which would lead in turn to the A-1 with the early type canopy, and revised wingtips, DM and FM.

A small detail quibble ; the Ju88D series was Long Range Recon version of A-4 (built to around 1,500 units, so after the A bombers and G night fighters was the next most significant in terms of usage) ; it was not a Zerstoerer.
As far as my understanding goes, the Ju88 variants that had destroyer subvariants were :
Ju88C and G. The G-8 was a zerstoerer that used the stretched airframe of the H series and I (whether historically correct or not ) consider the G-8 to be closer to the H family than the G.

I hope someone feels the need for a heavy German workhorse or two.

Kopfdorfer

[Kopfdorfer]

Okay Purs ( and everyone else who's interested)

I have made my best (non-German speaking) effort to refine the production figures in my initial post, but precise figures seem to be hard to come by. Aside from the obvious fact that the plants and factories were constantly hammered from 1943 on by Western allies, and the horrible attrition from the Red Army Air Force's second coming in the east, I believe that a major difficulty in both the recording and keeping of Ju88 production figures resides in the fact that the airframes were so valuable - especially as the production decline (see chart thread one) that many airframes were redistributed in different roles.

Here's what I can pass on :

Ju88A's 7,000 +, in order of importance by production
A-4      in service from  1941
A-5      in service from  1940
A-1      in service from  1939

Ju88C's              385 built up to 1942
Ju88C's and R's  706 built 1943               
Ju88C,R,G         2518 built 1944                                     
Ju88G6,G7         355 built 1945                                                           Total C-G-R    3964
                                                                                                   circa 3000 Ju88C's total
                                                                                                   circa   800 Ju88G's total

Ju88D's             1500+ built all subvariants  1940-44

Ju88H's             ~30+       (plus more than 100 G8s - on H airframe)

Ju88P's              small numbers only figure unknown

Ju88S's               ?

Mistel                 125

Most important type by year
1939     A-1
1940     A-5
1941     A-5 just higher than A-4
1942     A-4
1943     A-4/C6
1944     G
1945     G

Percentage of manufacture estimate in order of significance by number built :
Bombers    61 %    9,122       A-4, A-5, S-1, A-1
Fighters     26%     3,962       C-6, G-1, C-4, C-2
Recon        13%     1,911       D-1,T-1

By Year percentage of production estimate
1939          .5%
1940         15%
1941         18%
1942         21%
1943         22%
1944         21.5%
1945           2%

A note should be made that a significant number of prototypes were manufactured, and used operationally.

As always I would be delighted by more precise or correct figures.


Later

Kopfdorfer

[Kopfdorfer]

Any Modders have a need to fill?

Ju88A-1

Ju88A-5

Ju88C-2

Ju88C-4

Ju88D

Ju88H

Ju88P-1 prototype
Ju88P-4

Ju88R-1

Ju88R-2

Ju88G-1

Ju88G-2

Ju88G-4

Ju88G-6

Ju88G-7

Ju88S-1

Seeds for 2012


Kopfdorfer

[Falcon01]

I'd have to say that the Ju-88 series is probably my favorite of the Luftwaffe aircraft.  It amazes me that while other countries, specifically the US, would design a single plane from scratch to fill a role, the German's would take a single versatile air frame and re-purpose it for missions well beyond it's original capability.  In some ways this speaks volumes toward their ingenuity, but also to the shortage of capacity to maintain a large variety of units.

[Cranky.1]

Don't forget the Ju88 P-1 to Ju88 P-2 tank killers