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[tbauchot]

hello everybody.

The game is now quite enough complete to offer a lot of scenario possibility ( Thank you very, very much for DBW !  ) but in my own opinion I think that it would be very nice to add a new human dimension ! Where are Women, Kids and all kind of civilians , statics or movable ( like infantry mod) ? Between war missions or dogfight it will be very find to add some scene more scenic, tourist, humoristic, ( with the help of kuebelwagen and jeep !  ) . I think that the pilots need sometime some target like taking a beer in a pub with friends, go to the market, take a plane in a country hangar, go to the station in order to change of map, and more ... I let this at your own imagination and fantasy  !!! 

Thank you very much for all the modders  and their great additions in IL2 !

Best regards, Thierry .

Sorry for my bad english, I'm french ! 

[exhausted]

I've really needed some targets I don't need to lead as much.....

[farang65]

Good idea,

Still interested in an Asian generic style farmer/ rickshaw driver ( possibly rickshaw )

Cheers Kirby

[juanmalapuente]

This would be great for immersion, but we'll have to be much more careful in ground attack to avoid collateral damage. 

[agracier]

This would be great for immersion, but we'll have to be much more careful in ground attack to avoid collateral damage. 

That would make it all the more engrossing and somewhat more realistic ... war never takes place in an immaculate environment ... there are usually civilians around who get in harms way ... this is an aspect somewhat neglected in most combat sims. It would be well to get more of this into Il-2 and worry less about making more battleships, carriers and Nazi secret weapons ...

[singüe]

Klling civilians has always been a part of the war bussines, so we need old people, children and women forming on the roads as refugees to kill them, along with cars, trucks and horses.

[Patchman123]

I think we should leave the civilians out for ethical reasons. Collateral damage was non issue in World War II because bombs landed wherever they landed, and you could only hopt to hit a target within a mile of the target area at best and bombs flailed about in the wind. Guided bombs were not used in the regular bombing role in World War II on factories and what not. Collateral damage was not an issue in World War II because bombs with bomb-aiming system could not land within 10 feet of the target like present-day systems and bomsights could not steer the regular dumb bombs, and bombs could not be guided with lasers, because lasers and laser optics were not invented yet. Bombsights could not see through smoke or thick cloud cover and the bombs could only hope to hit the target at alland winds drift the bombs like leaves and how in the hell are you goling to see the civilians from 20,000 feet? You can't. 
Bombs could only land within 500 feet of a target and bombing from 20,000 feet hitting civilians isn't going to matter anyway. It's like having the soldiers in the game. You can't see them, but they're important to the battle. You can't see civilians at the altitudes I fly at in the game. It's like trying to spot a swarm of ants from the Empire State Building.

If civilians were hit in WWII, tough luck for them, that was the attitude, they didn't care about civilians because there was nothing they could do. What's gonna matter more, dead civilians or stopping the enemy's war production machine? I'd choose the latter because it's more important that the enemy stop making weapons that kill our boys on the front lines and shorten the war. The civilians are an abstraction to the larger goal of denying the enemy the means to fight. look, I know these guys have families.

I can't just see a card to the family of Max Stein because he died in a raid and I don't know where he lives in town and it doesn't matter anyway.

Civilians, although it would add realism, don't really matter because you can't see them and they do nothing to affect the game's outcome and they are not doing a thing to affect it. It's useless because they don't affect the game's flying or altitude from high altitudes and they are just there on the ground.


You can't see civilians anyway.
What's the difference? You can't see them anyway from high altitude. Sounds pretty useless to be to have civilians in the game.

[agracier]

We are nothing only talking about civilians as figures, like the soldier figures, but also civilian vehicles, ships, boats and things like that. Or civilian aircraft for that matter. Airliners, carrying civilian passengers still flew during the war, to Switzerland, Portugal, Spain, all passing over or through war zones ... not to mention the so characteristic refugee columns of fleeing civilians that packed the roads in Western Europe during periods of the war ... or ships carrying refugees in the Baltic Sea during the latter part ...

It would be interesting and challenging, not to mention a bit educational and conscience forming, to include this - as mods that can taken or left according to everyone's taste - as another aspect of simming.

Often I feel that gamers would benefit personally from realizing that wars and conflicts are not only about the biggest battleship or carrier or the coolest looking Ueberweapon ...

In the game you get negative points for shooting friendly planes or vehicles. It might be useful to have the same happen when you destroy civilian objects as well ...

Now I don't know if it can be done or not, or if anyone would care to spend time on this, but it is something of value to possibly take into consideration since I suppose that striving for as much realism as possible in a flight sim is more or less axiomatic.

[singüe]

When I wrote was, perhaps in a crude way, intending to say what agracier explains. Both my mother and father were straffed by fascist aircrafts during SCW, it was not collateral damage, it was to put terror in population and eliminate posible enemies

[Cranky.1]

With the battle for France the luftwaffe Ju-87 attacked families of French refugees fleeing the front lines to block up the roads so to slow down road movements of French and British forces. 
And also.
P-47 pilots had to take out and kill Women & children on horse drawn carriages that were helping to bring supplies to the Men fighting on the German front lines in the last weeks of the war. 
Very Sad but True. 
P.S. If this was part of the game it would make it much to horribly to real.

[Thunda]

The Luftwaffe were well known for strafing columns of refugees, particularly around Dunkirk and the early stages of Barbarossa. There are stories of British soldiers in retreat hiding from diving German aircraft, only for the aircraft to roar past and ignore them whilst they strafed the refugees. Apparently, it was a policy to keep the roads jammed up to slow the use by Military vehicles. Mind you, as Cranky.1 has pointed out, USAAF and RAF pilots strafed passenger trains and civilian cars and trucks (and even a horse and cart) towards the end of the war (although Ive never heard of them strafing refugee columns).

[DarkBlueBoy]

They would be a great addition - they would not have to be used as targets surely?