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Author Topic: Mustangs suck big floppy donkey dingus.  (Read 27849 times)

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Uzin

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Re: Mustangs suck big floppy donkey dingus.
« Reply #72 on: January 28, 2012, 12:42:27 PM »

Here's what's possible with the donkey dingus: 

First, while doing one of the missions from my upcoming "Yoxford Boys" campaign, I got myself in some deep shit.   ???  That's a 109G-14.  I was shooting at his wingman and he got really mad at me.
Then, at the right moment, and while using combat flaps, I started a "Defensive spiral" outlined here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_fighter_maneuvers#Defensive_spiral
Here is the Defensive spiral in progress.  Note that the ntrk does not show the 109s leading edge slats were fully extended at this time.
He overshot me vertically and started to run away.  I caught him from behind and eventually ended up here:
Big time adventure and really got the old adrenaline pumping  :)  (sound of dog panting here)
Would it be possible to let us d/l the ntrk file, please ,
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Stratodog

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Re: Mustangs suck big floppy donkey dingus.
« Reply #73 on: January 28, 2012, 01:58:18 PM »

OK, I haven't set up a d/l in a long time so here goes.

https://www.mediafire.com/?tqhms5m866ysggm

That should be the .ntrk

It starts while I'm chasing the wingman for more shooting opportunities and I notice another 109 coming in fast.

To my embarrassment,  :-[ I noticed that I "cleared my tail" a couple times for a half second or so by switching to fly by view.

Anyhoo, by the time I start shooting at this guy I'm so worked up that I can hardly hold the stick steady and my shooting suffers.  But he does bail out eventually.

Enjoy.  :)

Edit:  BTW, you've got to use something like Trakir to raise your POV way up in the seat and forward, otherwise you'll lose sight of  the guy when he is close in at 6 o'clock.
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CWMV

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Re: Mustangs suck big floppy donkey dingus.
« Reply #74 on: January 30, 2012, 12:32:39 AM »

Whats the deal with this new campaign? Sounds interesting!
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Uzin

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Re: Mustangs suck big floppy donkey dingus.
« Reply #75 on: January 30, 2012, 01:56:39 AM »

Thanks, Stratodog.
Nice video.
As for P-51D, I think, that all the hint is, not to fall into the spin, that is, not to loose your speed. Similarly as in P-39, for the same reason : center of gravity too back.
P-51 is better in that it is better to save from the spin.
I prefer La-5FN or La-7, btw.
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JimmyBlonde

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Re: Mustangs suck big floppy donkey dingus.
« Reply #76 on: January 30, 2012, 10:06:48 AM »

I agree with CWMV. What is also annoy me the fact that the P-47 is much better in fly than the P-51D in this game...  :P

It's hard to make something out of nothing in the '47 though. She runs out of tricks pretty fast if you don't have the advantage and then she flounders around like a whale in a wading pool once you run out.

It can be done but not by many people, only a special few ;)

The P-51, on the other hand, doesn't have the same response from it's engine in terms of torque or horsepower but it does have two other advantages which rely upon your ability to keep the slip ball centered. In the P-51 you get the advantage of a better thrust to weight ratio as well as a much cleaner aerodynamic profile but neither of these mean jack-shit unless you're flying trimmed and coordinated. If you're out of trim the P-51 is about as aerodynamic as a furniture van, just look at the cross section of the fuselage.

Make the most of the aerodynamics of it by flying cleaner than you do in other aircraft.

What all this boils down to is that, so far as single-player Il-2 goes, CWMV is right. The P-51 sucks a big floppy donkey dingus.

Not because it's a bad plane but because the AI cheat.

You are flying it against IDEAL versions of aircraft that were plagued by various technical problems and other shortcomings in real life.

Your opponents don't have crap fuel, poorly manufactured engines or faulty, over-complicated and often sabotaged weapons systems. (Slave labour is bad m'kay)

Your opponents are not sane, rational people who fly like they don't want to be killed, they are fanatical, super-nazi-banzai cyborgs and you can't win against the cyborg flown 109 or 190 in a pitched battle with the P-51. You're John Connors in that Terminator world and, anything like the kind of fight that we all usually want to have in Il-2 is taboo in the P-51 against the AI.

(I mean a quick, fun fight and not a long, boring game of cat and mouse.)

So, for the offliner, the golden rule of P-51 is:

"One pass, haul ass."

Use guerrilla tactics, cyborg bitches don't know 'bout my Che Guevara handbook.

If you deny the enemy the chance to be effective (say by driving him away from your bombers and forcing him to sacrifice height to escape) then you've done your job until he comes back. Don't chase him, let him sniff around and try again and, when he does, have another go at him. Only get stuck in when you hold all the cards, if you don't hold all the cards then fold, you can't bluff a cyborg.
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Stratodog

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Re: Mustangs suck big floppy donkey dingus.
« Reply #77 on: January 30, 2012, 11:05:39 AM »

Whats the deal with this new campaign? Sounds interesting!

I'm putting the finishing touches on it right now.  I'm a little bogged down with work, both on the job and at home, but I have some time in the evenings to polish a few things.  I should be able to release it within a few days.  stand by...
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FANATIC MODDER

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Re: Mustangs suck big floppy donkey dingus.
« Reply #78 on: January 30, 2012, 05:56:25 PM »

Your opponents are not sane, rational people who fly like they don't want to be killed, they are fanatical, super-nazi-banzai cyborgs and you can't win against the cyborg flown 109 or 190 in a pitched battle with the P-51. You're John Connors in that Terminator world and, anything like the kind of fight that we all usually want to have in Il-2 is taboo in the P-51 against the AI.

Sorry, but this is one of the most unlucky (I am trying to be friendly) excuses I ever heard about the performance of P-51, and I heard many over the years, starting with the now legendary "P-51 is porked period" topics of Ubisoft forum....

Fighter pilots were taught to be agressive. They HAD to be agressive in order to survive. This agression often saved their lifes, even if many times was not enough...The lack of agression was the sure way to be shot down. Aces like George Berling or Ralph 'kidd' Hofer it seems like they had agression as their biggest advantage in combat. As Thomas McGuire said it "be agressive to do your job". An agressive pilot, even as a rookie, is always a threat to the enemy.

The same applies for luftwaffe pilots too. German pilots were taught to be agressive. Please look at the memoirs of Pierre Clostermann - and re-think what you wrote. His testimony about air fighting above Germany in early 1945 is a "must read" for everyone that is interested in military history and his description of these clearly novice but very agressive (and dangerous) Fw 190 pilots is breathtaking.

Of course, aggression could never be enough by itself, but - THAT IS THE KEY- is the plane itself that helps you to be more or less aggressive. And the truth is, while the 109s and 190s push you being aggressive as much as you can (in a very different way each, but still aggressive), the P-51 doesn't. You have to act "flying first, fighting second".

Now from the historical reality to the IL-2 virtual reality: The comparisons with the Spitfire are so unfortunate for P-51 - especially if you try the excellent H.F. VIII - , I am thinking of a plane with the same engine. But that's why you seldom read, if not at all, instructions about how to fly spitfires, and the same applies for 109s. And I read instructions about 'how' you should 'fly' P-51s many times. And in this topic too. Essentially, instructions how to avoid to get shot down. But if ever someone would do the same for a spitfire or a 109, he would instruct people how be to ...a(s)erial killers. Focusing purely in tactics. But very rarely we would hear about it. Every great IL-2 pilot has its own tricks and most are unwilling to share...
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JimmyBlonde

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Re: Mustangs suck big floppy donkey dingus.
« Reply #79 on: January 30, 2012, 11:57:01 PM »


Fighter pilots were taught to be agressive. They HAD to be agressive in order to survive. This agression often saved their lifes, even if many times was not enough...The lack of agression was the sure way to be shot down. Aces like George Berling or Ralph 'kidd' Hofer it seems like they had agression as their biggest advantage in combat. As Thomas McGuire said it "be agressive to do your job". An agressive pilot, even as a rookie, is always a threat to the enemy.


Yes, thankyou for being condescending enough to point out the perfectly obvious whilst missing the basic reality that, in Il-2, every engagement with AI planes is a slug-fest to the utter destruction of one side or the other.

I never said don't be aggressive, only that the AI are suicidally aggressive. Do you see the difference between human aggression tempered with discretion and mindless robotic aggression?

Anyway, if you are right then everything in history is a lie, all the pilots in WW2 died in the first week because every engagement resulted in one side pursuing the other until it was utterly annihilated...

In the real world being aggressive is scary, people have respect for aggression and use caution.

In Il-2 world being aggressive just means that the AI target you.

In Clostermann's book the Luftwaffe didn't mindlessly attack him until they were destroyed, they didn't follow him all the way over the channel and try to strafe his parked aircraft until the AAA shot them down.
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CWMV

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Re: Mustangs suck big floppy donkey dingus.
« Reply #80 on: January 31, 2012, 12:11:37 AM »

No, he has a point.
We all know that the AI has some pretty severe advantages in game (not sure if resolved to a point in DBW...?).
But then flip it around. Take a 190 against a 51 and see how easy it is to make mince meat from them.

Regardless, lets try to keep it nice here. Remember this thread was started in a very tongue in cheek fashion!
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BT~Tarik

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Re: Mustangs suck big floppy donkey dingus.
« Reply #81 on: January 31, 2012, 12:16:59 AM »


But then flip it around. Take a 190 against a 51 and see how easy it is to make mince meat from them.


I agree...even against an ace Mustang he doesn't get past me alive (head on)

and everyone knows that I'm a very very bad pilot  :D and flying on keyboard currently...
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CWMV

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Re: Mustangs suck big floppy donkey dingus.
« Reply #82 on: January 31, 2012, 12:20:05 AM »

Oh Im a god-awful 190 pilot.
Im serious. Really really bad.
Im really only any good in 109's and P-40's. Go figure the only aircraft in game Ive flown in 10 years...
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BT~Tarik

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Re: Mustangs suck big floppy donkey dingus.
« Reply #83 on: January 31, 2012, 12:21:46 AM »

lol I am awful in every plane ^^ but I like the Butcher bird and fly it ok (in comparison to other planes like a certain donkey dingus  ::))
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