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[exhausted]

I think MF model was a very big surprise for them 

yes, Mf was a general improvement of Mig-21

Internal cannon, better avionics and better climb performances and acceleration

The Phantoms (expecially E version) remains much better as 360° plane but in a close combat at low and medium alt a good pilot can give bad surprises to F-4s pilots

Obviously in the hands of Israeli pilots, who knew how to exploit the best features of the Phantom, the F-4E was too much for the Mf

If you go only by Israeli sources, then what you say is true. The reality is commonly believed to be somewhat different.

The NVAF got the MFs in '72 (I think), and they were first encountered on 10 May. US intelligence knew about the possibility of MFs but did not know of the true asset they really possessed: increased thrust. The F-4s used to be B 'n Zers, but when they tried to outrun the MFs at low level, the MiGs slowly caught up and launched missiles. The surprise was great and aviators needed to reevaluate how they would defeat these improved interceptors.

[ANDYTOTHED]

If i remember correctly the only USAF losses on 10th may was 1 navy F-4J to a SAM (Showtime 100)
the other was a USAF F-4D shot down by gunfire from a MiG 19

[4S_Vega]

I think MF model was a very big surprise for them 

yes, Mf was a general improvement of Mig-21

Internal cannon, better avionics and better climb performances and acceleration

The Phantoms (expecially E version) remains much better as 360° plane but in a close combat at low and medium alt a good pilot can give bad surprises to F-4s pilots

Obviously in the hands of Israeli pilots, who knew how to exploit the best features of the Phantom, the F-4E was too much for the Mf

If you go only by Israeli sources, then what you say is true. The reality is commonly believed to be somewhat different.

The NVAF got the MFs in '72 (I think), and they were first encountered on 10 May. US intelligence knew about the possibility of MFs but did not know of the true asset they really possessed: increased thrust. The F-4s used to be B 'n Zers, but when they tried to outrun the MFs at low level, the MiGs slowly caught up and launched missiles. The surprise was great and aviators needed to reevaluate how they would defeat these improved interceptors.

the problem is: to what source believe

 I personally find much more reliable data Israelis

 1) the Arabs declared a number of victories but the same were never confirmed by scrap found on the ground or by guncamera (i can declare 50 Phantoms too but i had to show the pieces of enemy plane or show guncamera kill)

 2) is much more difficult to hide losses in a democratic state that in the Arab states of the years 60/70

 3) those aerial defeats generated deep reflections also in the Soviet

  4) for what regards Vietnam, most of the Phantom losses where relate to the planes shot down by enemy fighters during ground attack missions over enemy fields. If we consider the pure fighter missions, the ratio would have been much more favorable for the F 4 (vietnamese makes only fighter, and in friendly territory!). This fact is very significant and should not be underestimated!

so, talking about planes, Mf was a good opponents for F-4 in certain areas of the flight invelopment, but is like compare an F-16 with an F-15......the last can do things that the first cannot and not vice versa

Bis version is very close as interceptor and slightly better in dogfight

 

[Charlie_01]

I have another question about the mod itself: are the cockpit's gauges animated in F-4?
I can't see them in that way: maybe I've done a wrong installation or missed some addon?

[mojojojo]

I have another question about the mod itself: are the cockpit's gauges animated in F-4?
I can't see them in that way: maybe I've done a wrong installation or missed some addon?

no. its a beta, and the cockpit gauges aren't finished.

[RedSpade]

I don't mean to look a gift horse in the mouth . . . well, maybe I do.  The HUD on the Phantom seems to need a good cleaning.  It is very hard to see through.  Is it just me?  Is that realistic?  Was it done on purpose? Should I stop complaining now. . . 

[SAS~Malone]

could i be a pain and ask for an alternative d/l link for v1.21?
hotfile just doesn't work for me - after 48 hours and numerous failed attempts, i give up.
any chance for mediafire, or pretty much anything else instead of hotfile?
thanks in advance.

[S3231541]

Cool, I'll wrap things up and update a link soon.

Cheers,

s3

[SAS~Malone]

thanks mate, i look forward to it

[NS~mati140]

I don't mean to look a gift horse in the mouth . . . well, maybe I do.  The HUD on the Phantom seems to need a good cleaning.  It is very hard to see through.  Is it just me?  Is that realistic?  Was it done on purpose? Should I stop complaining now. . . 

Yes, F-4s were SO claustophobic, so it's correct. Besides that cokpit is early alpha and it doesn't work yet. Working, animated modern HUD is possible in IL-2 and I've already seen one, fully operational, in one of Mirage's videos including his Kawasaki T-4. So, early HUD should be even easier to do. I guess we can expect it when cockpit is finnished.

[Kazegami]

I don't mean to look a gift horse in the mouth . . . well, maybe I do.  The HUD on the Phantom seems to need a good cleaning.  It is very hard to see through.  Is it just me?  Is that realistic?  Was it done on purpose? Should I stop complaining now. . . 

Yes, F-4s were SO claustophobic, so it's correct. Besides that cokpit is early alpha and it doesn't work yet. Working, animated modern HUD is possible in IL-2 and I've already seen one, fully operational, in one of Mirage's videos including his Kawasaki T-4. So, early HUD should be even easier to do. I guess we can expect it when cockpit is finnished.

I think you misunderstood him. He means the reflector glass (where the gunsight is) is hard to see through. The F-4 didn't have a HUD.

[RedSpade]

I think Kazegami is be correct, the gun sight area.  If you are on a ground pounding mission it is difficult to view your target thru the glass.  I fly this plane so much (too much fun), I forgot that it was still a beta, so I apologize for my complaint and I shall await the pending work.  Thanks for your efforts.  You know how to make this guy and a hundred more smile!