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Author Topic: "Sangre y Oro" Il2-SCW - Update 1/6/2012  (Read 86161 times)

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David Prosser

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Re: Coming soon!
« Reply #180 on: June 23, 2012, 07:59:28 AM »

Looking good Peter. I wasn't aware the Loire 46 was in that early. I'm sure it'll be avidly downloaded. Including by me.

cheers

David

SAS~Poltava

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Re: "Sangre y Oro" Il2-SCW - Update 1/6/2012
« Reply #181 on: June 23, 2012, 08:01:01 AM »

Yes, the first Loire 46's arrived in Spain between 5 and 7 September 1936. They could not be used until the end of the month because of the lack of weapons and spare parts. These fighters were then sent to Madrid to participate in the defense of the capital. :)
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David Prosser

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Re: "Sangre y Oro" Il2-SCW - Update 1/6/2012
« Reply #182 on: June 23, 2012, 08:17:08 AM »

Thanks, Poltava. From memory, the Wikipedia entry says something about the French opening the border briefly, and sending 20 of them to the Republicans. I think it did mention them being sans weapons and guns. I think my next campaign will be a reprise of Santander with the player flying Ro37s as heavy fighters/light bombers. Once the Balaerics map is done, I'd like to do four long campaigns beginning there. Two for fighters, and two for two seaters from either side. I sketched an 8 mission outline for a Nationalist fighter campaign at work a couple of days ago. It was when I was waiting for latecomers to arrive.

cheers

David

juanmalapuente

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Re: "Sangre y Oro" Il2-SCW - Update 1/6/2012
« Reply #183 on: June 23, 2012, 08:35:36 AM »

All are good news.  ;D I'm really happy with this effervescence of contributions to create the best SCW sim ever. Great work Pete. Poltava, your campaign looks really great. May be when Potez-54 are out, you could add some too. :D
The only detail (Oh,no! here comes this pain in the neck again!) is the order of events: the first 4 Loire-46 (from a probable total of 5)entered in combat in september 21th 1936 and by the end of october, there was no one left in service. The last single fighter in flight conditions to defend Madrid, at the beginning of november, just before the arrival of I-15 and i-16 was the last Spanish Fury, as Garcia Lacalle, the pilot, and Hidalgo de Cisneros, chief of Republican Air Forces, recall in their respective memories books. That's why Hidalgo de Cisneros had to give the famous order one day: "que salga EL caza". ;)
Would be too difficult to change missions order?
Garcia Lacalle piloted (and crashed) two Loire-46 in mixed escuadrillas with Dewoitines and Nieuports before being pilot of the Fury, later in october, in rotation with Javier Rovira (more pilots than planes)  ;D
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SAS~Poltava

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Re: "Sangre y Oro" Il2-SCW - Update 1/6/2012
« Reply #184 on: June 23, 2012, 09:41:31 AM »

Oh dear, I knew about the last Fury crashing in early November, but I did not know that the Loire 46's already were out of the game then. Hmm, have to consider how to solve this. :o

Perhaps making it a combination campaign of Nieuport 52 -> Loire 46 -> Furys -> finally a combination of bombers and I-15's.

Juan, would it be reasonable to use the Dewoitine 371 in this period on this front? The Escadrille Espagne had received some 17 of them, and I know some were used in the Barcelona area.
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Mission_bug

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Re: "Sangre y Oro" Il2-SCW - Update 1/6/2012
« Reply #185 on: June 23, 2012, 12:00:04 PM »

Hello all, David has now sent his mis file to me that has his detaiing of Mahon docks, I've now integrated it into the map along with the sea wall detailing I've been doing around mahon.

Departing inland.



Bloody tourists get every where.



The overall view.



The docks.



The FMB view.



Now I'm departing for the pub, I'm going bog eyed looking at objects today. ;)

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
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juanmalapuente

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Re: "Sangre y Oro" Il2-SCW - Update 1/6/2012
« Reply #186 on: June 23, 2012, 04:36:06 PM »

Oh dear, I knew about the last Fury crashing in early November, but I did not know that the Loire 46's already were out of the game then. Hmm, have to consider how to solve this. :o

Perhaps making it a combination campaign of Nieuport 52 -> Loire 46 -> Furys -> finally a combination of bombers and I-15's.

Juan, would it be reasonable to use the Dewoitine 371 in this period on this front? The Escadrille Espagne had received some 17 of them, and I know some were used in the Barcelona area.

Dewoitines 371 arrived in a second batch in 1937. The twelve Dewoitines sent unarmed to Madrid front in august were 372. The first 2 D-372, already armed entered in action the 31st of august, in support of the Furys and Nieuports. Lacalle says that by that time, CASA was producing a new Nieuport or repairing one every day, but they fell faster under the fire of the arriving He-51 and CR-32.
Despite the good qualities of Dewoitines and Loire-46, the unnaproppiate improvised armament and the missmanagement by several pilots (not only the Malraux's mercenaries but also some Spaniards) led to the loss of all of them in only two months.
They were also really bad commanded, since they were sent very often to the front by pairs or alone. Hidalgo de Cisneros scattered the fighters all around the front to attend the petitions of every column leader, so they resulted highly uneffective. Quite often, a single fighter had to escort one or several Potez-54, so German and Italian hadn't much trouble to shoot them down one by one, leading to the catastrophic situation of october 28th, with the last Fury flying alone against several squadrons of CR32 and He-51.
We can't blame enterely Hidalgo de Cisneros for the disaster. He was only a pilot, that became accidentaly chief of the Republican Air Force when General Nuñez de Prado was killed by rebel generals. Actually, he flew himself Nieuport-52 for several weeks at the beginning of war, and also participated in bombing raid in one of the DC-2.
One very impressive fact that Lacalle highlights in his memories is that the brave Breguet XIX pilots continued going to their bombing services in this horrible situation to the end, without any escort most of the times in the last weeks, and knowing they had almost no chance against a squadron of German or Italian fighters.
No wonder why Madrid people received the Russian chatos and moscas as they were the 7th of Cavalry. They really arrived in the last moment as in movies.  ;D ;D ;D
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juanmalapuente

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Re: "Sangre y Oro" Il2-SCW - Update 1/6/2012
« Reply #187 on: June 23, 2012, 04:37:55 PM »

Hello all, David has now sent his mis file to me that has his detaiing of Mahon docks, I've now integrated it into the map along with the sea wall detailing I've been doing around mahon.

Wow, you did it guys, Mahon came to life! It looks gorgeous.  :D I want one of those apartments in front of the coast. ;D
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talhuman

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Re: "Sangre y Oro" Il2-SCW - Update 1/6/2012
« Reply #188 on: June 23, 2012, 07:56:52 PM »

I have an install of 4.10.1 with DBW 1916 v4 update, I cannot seem to run SCW campaigns and adding SCW planes to my #DBW folder causes a 70% crash, any thoughts.
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SAS~Poltava

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Re: "Sangre y Oro" Il2-SCW - Update 1/6/2012
« Reply #189 on: June 24, 2012, 12:09:37 AM »

Juan,

I am now revising the campaign: you start out flying the Loire 46 until late October, switch to the Fury, which you fly until early November. Then you fly two missions with the Potez 25. For the final three missions you fly a "repaired" Dewoitine 372.

That should be close enough to reality.

And yes, in one mission you scramble alone in a Fury to defend Madrid against oncoming Junkers....
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David Prosser

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Re: "Sangre y Oro" Il2-SCW - Update 1/6/2012
« Reply #190 on: June 24, 2012, 01:23:40 AM »

Hi, Peter. That sounds pretty plausible. Miracle of miracles. For all seven missions of FAA Pacific, the AI put me in the right plane.

cheers

David

David Prosser

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Re: "Sangre y Oro" Il2-SCW - Update 1/6/2012
« Reply #191 on: June 24, 2012, 01:33:22 AM »

Hi, Mission_bug. Those greyish buildings on the wharf are warehouses. They look perfect for the role. Thanks for adding bits to the harbour. I added the port of Pollenca just now. Going from the Google Earth pic, it's not very big. Now, it appears to be a marina. [I couldn't find a beach front swimming pool object. Is there one?] The SPB looks deserted now. I'm sure the port won't interfere with your SPB.  I'll take up an Autogyro and have a close look. I'll email the new file to you later. I don't think it's worth adding the 18th century fortifications near Mahon. The ones that are pixelled out in GE. It might be worth adding two #1399 sea forts near the heads of Mahon though.

cheers

David
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