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[HundertzehnGustav]

okay, then you can commit suicide now.

get me some stats: how many planes were damaged by PB Defiants?
I agree with thunda, but would like to add that defiants were later successfully used to support Pilot education, as a target tug aircraft it actively helped all those tiffie, tempest and spitfire jockeys Bomber command gunners properly aim and use the guns.
That is not a "combat argument" but more of a information snippet.

someone say Beaufort?
make me dream!

[Radoye]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handley_Page_Hampden



Role    Medium bomber
Manufacturer    Handley Page
Designer    Gustav Lachmann
First flight    21 June 1936
Introduction    1938
Retired    1945
Primary users    Royal Air Force
Royal Canadian Air Force
Soviet Naval Aviation
Royal Australian Air Force
Produced    1936-1941
Number built    1,430

General characteristics

    Crew: 4
    Length: 53 ft 7 in (16.33 m)
    Wingspan: 69 ft 2 in (21.08 m)
    Height: 14 ft 4 in (4.37 m)
    Wing area: 688 ft² (63.9 m²)
    Empty weight: 11,780 lb (5,344 kg)
    Loaded weight: 18,756 lb (8,508 kg)
    Powerplant: 2 × Bristol Pegasus XVIII 9-cylinder radial engine, 980 hp (730 kW) each

Performance

    Maximum speed: 265 mph (410 km/h) at 15,500 ft (4,724 m)
    Range: 1,095 mi (1,762 km)
    Service ceiling: 19,000 ft (5,790 m)
    Rate of climb: 980 ft/min (300 m/min)
    Wing loading: 27.3 lb/ft² (133 kg/m²)
    Power/mass: 0.104 hp/lb (0.172 kW/kg)

Armament

    Guns: 4-6 × .303 in (7.7 mm) Vickers K machine guns: one flexible and one fixed in the nose, one or two each in dorsal and ventral positions
    Bombs: 4,000 lb (1,814 kg) bombs or 1 × 18 in (457 mm) torpedo or mines

[radko1111]

okay, then you can commit suicide now.

get me some stats: how many planes were damaged by PB Defiants?
I agree with thunda, but would like to add that defiants were later successfully used to support Pilot education, as a target tug aircraft it actively helped all those tiffie, tempest and spitfire jockeys Bomber command gunners properly aim and use the guns.
That is not a "combat argument" but more of a information snippet.

someone say Beaufort?
make me dream!

understand that Bob is not only the Bf-109 and Supermarine Spitfire was bi ideal to 1940 are not about how many planes shot down ...

[Radoye]

Defiant was the most important British night fighter of BoB...

[radko1111]

Defiant was the most important British night fighter of BoB...

+1

nice Request
+1

[mac1]

the ocean wing team is working on the wirlwhind....
a short search would have revealed this.

a short search would also tell you mojo the last time any news was released on this aircraft...

[Paulo Hirth]

  Westland Whirlwind! I prefer Dog figh in first place, more fun! Defiant is interesting too for BOB, but not so fun for DF.

[HundertzehnGustav]

with the BP there is a need for AI to properly use guns as well... in traverse, consistent, proper aiming.
or even move forward and let the pilot take control of the guns.

[Thunda]

Defiant was the most important British night fighter of BoB...

There wasnt really a night fighter war happening during the Battle of Britain (apart from the odd lone raider), as the Luftwaffe was banned from bombing British cities until 3rd Sept '40. On 17th Sept, raids were switched to night time, and the 'Blitz' began. On Sept 27th, a Ju88 which was shot down over Britain is considered to be the last aircraft shot down during the 'Battle of Britain. So you have a 10 day period where there was some night raids that can be considered to be during the 'Battle of Britain', and even then, as night fighting was in its infancy and radar interception didnt exist, the role was shared between day fighter types (Hurricanes & Spitfires), the Blenheim IF and the Defiant.

If you are looking for the Defiants finest hour, then I would consider the 29th May 1940, when aircraft from 264 Sqn claimed 37 kills over two missions- 19 Stukas (attacked whilst pulling out of their dives), 9 Bf110's, 8 109's & a Ju88. Their success over fighters was thought to be due to them being mistaken for Hurricanes, then hitting the German fighter whilst it was lining up on the Defiant from behind.

Apparently, the squadron developed a tactic for dealing with formations of fighters- here is a quote from 'Turret Fighters' by Alec Brew: "By flying in an ever-descending Lufberry circle, Defiant crews sacrificed the advantage of height but eliminated the possibility of attack from underneath, while giving 360° of defensive fire."

"Although 264 Sqn. claimed 48 kills in eight days over Dunkirk, the cost was high with 14 Defiants lost. The actual German losses were no more than 12 to 15 enemy aircraft; the turret's wide angle of fire meant that several Defiants could engage the same target at one time leading to multiple claims." So once the Luftwaffe realised what they were dealing with, the Defiant was relegated to night-fighting, and as soon as radar equipped Beaufighters arrived in early '41, it was the beginning of the end of its combat career, with all models removed from combat duties by '42. There was a radar equipped and up engined version (Defiant II), but it still didnt have the performance to easily hunt down and destroy Luftwaffe bombers.
It did have a limited role as a trainer, target tug, air sea rescue and early ECM missions, but the concept of the single engined turret fighter was a design dead end.
Im not saying the Defiant didnt have success, just that there are far more important RAF aircraft that are missing from the game- the Hampden above being another example.

[redfox]

Everytime the Defiant is mentioned on this site a load of people enter the fray and list their reasons why the Defiant shouldn't be modelled. I don't no why it should cause so much resentment. I would like to see it in the sim but that will be decided by a modder no matter what anyone else says.

It was certainly a unique a/c and that's a big plus for me, and as it flew operationally from May 1940 as a day-fighter through to early 1942 as a night-fighter, then onto July 1943 in it's ECM role before all of them took up secondary roles, I do think it has a deserving place in the sim.

If we only included a/c that were 'operationally successful' there would be a lot less a/c in the sim than there is now.

So in conclusion if any modder wanted to have a go at the defiant, you can rest assured that their is a band of us out here who would love to see it included in the sim and I'm sure it would be appearing in a few missions and campaigns.

Cheers - Redfox

[radko1111]

Everytime the Defiant is mentioned on this site a load of people enter the fray and list their reasons why the Defiant shouldn't be modelled. I don't no why it should cause so much resentment. I would like to see it in the sim but that will be decided by a modder no matter what anyone else says.

It was certainly a unique a/c and that's a big plus for me, and as it flew operationally from May 1940 as a day-fighter through to early 1942 as a night-fighter, then onto July 1943 in it's ECM role before all of them took up secondary roles, I do think it has a deserving place in the sim.

If we only included a/c that were 'operationally successful' there would be a lot less a/c in the sim than there is now.

So in conclusion if any modder wanted to have a go at the defiant, you can rest assured that their is a band of us out here who would love to see it included in the sim and I'm sure it would be appearing in a few missions and campaigns.

Cheers - Redfox

misions and campigs Yes +1 I had this in mind 

[Thunda]

Redfox, I was simply responding to people claiming it was the 'best this or that' which it patently wasnt- yes, its an unusual aircraft, and far be it from me to try to stop anyone modelling it, but I do have a problem with people claiming "without PB Defiant BOB  is about nothing" or "Defiant was the most important British night fighter of BoB...". I too would like to see it in the sim, and I didnt say it had to be 'operationally successful' to be considered. What I did say is that there are more important British aircraft that are not in the game......