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[S3231541]

I got something (a new project  ) that I need to urgently working on so this I will put on hold. But it worth it, just stay tuned  .

[Whiskey_Sierra_972]

I have tested mine and flaps are working correctly on every MiG!

Maybe something related to JW not correctly installed?

You should post your log....

[Whiskey_Sierra_972]

@ MarvinT

Tested the other unnamed plane (but since the 'other site' have unlocked restrictions towards SAS maybe can be specified again) and I bet that is related to the Skyhawk reported as released from M4T....wow this kind of say without say is too complicated for a not perferct english speeker....sorry writer

Anyway I just test 4 A4-B with Sidewinders against 4 L-139 with A-13 and got missiles working correctly without any issue....

[MarvinT]

Thanks Walter. No problem with the Skyhawk firing missiles, its the other jets that lock-up on firing when the Skyhawk is installed. Without the Skyhawk all is fine.

[MarvinT]

Another thought, it might be a bad download.....I will get back to you.

[NS~mati140]

Ok, after further investigation and meditation I think I found another use for that horizontal scale and this time it's correct. My bet is it is used for both but this one is something you can safely implement - the horizontal scale apparently shows range - if you steer your aircraft so that the target is in the middle of aiming ring, those 2 horizontal distance markers projected against horizontal scale accurately show the distance to target. Of course the current cockpit skin uses RP-22 screen so syncing it now has no purpose, but you get the idea.

Also I just noticed you set the correct borders of permissible launch range for atolls, good to see that

EDIT: I confirm the problem with flaps from my side, although it doesn't happen everytime I fly MiG-21, sometimes flaps work, sometimes they don't. It's either random, weapon related or happens when MiG-21 is flown directly after SM-12, or a combination of these.

[DeJotPe]

Markers on horizontal line shows distance to target: begining and the end of the gaps shows you the maximal and minimal range at witch missles can be launched.
According to source mentioned above http://www.flyshark.republika.pl/Stacja_angielska/sapfir.htm your interception speed (for mig-21) should be 150km/h higher than the target.
By the way: polish versions seems to have more info about it, but i did't found anything significant, or worth implementation - maybe double bars as the IFF-indicated frendly planes?

Also i'd like to notice that without my change of the nose-files/meshes/etc nose of my regular mig-19 changed into radar-version. Since regular mig-19 cockpit doesn't have a radar i think its unnecesary/mistake.

And also i'd like to complain about FM: with flaps fully extended plane is shaking, jumping enormously and its very unrealistic -there something apparently wrong.

My instal: 4.11.1m + modact 4.x, engines 2.6, jetwar 1.3, mig-21, F-4 ...
i just install mig-19 over old install, deleting old mig-19 folder before it.

[NS~mati140]

please do not full quote posts just one post above yours

1. Yep, I realized that recently I think the FOV for tracking mode should stay as it is for now, at least until someone finds more data (assuming that S3 didn't find it already bc that change to 40*/40* FOV for tracking mode suggest he did find something). As for gaps, I and S3 both know that, he implemented it and it shows correct range for Atolls
2. It's not a must, it's just the usual speed at which it happens and it's coming from the fact that you're usually intercepting B-52 or something similar with a supersonic jetfighter. It's an observation, not a fragment of procedure
3. Because he already implemented most of this - although as you said, IFF (double bar for friendlies) and maybe random noise (as in that source, usually even if the target plane was the only plane in the sky there was a lot of stuff on radar, since it detected clouds).

The most important thing I got from there was: "In the search mode, the radar scans +-28 degrees in azimuth and +-17 deg 40 min in elevation.[total of 56* horizontal and 35*20' vertical FOV]" This is for RP-22. As of now I am not actually sure if it should be lower or higher for RP-21 - actually RP-22 has 10km higher range than RP-21, so horizontal angle can be lower than on RP-21 to maintain precision.

Currently it's +-30* horizontal (60* FOV) and +-12*30' vertical (25* FOV) - the official info I saw here and there only differs in vertical range (10* instead of 12.5*) but yeah, official info - it's a cold war aircraft, it's still used by some countries. Most of data has been declassified relatively recently (the source I provided is one of those sources of declassified data). You can safely mark all "wikipedia type sources" as bullshit and either use whatever real data you find or lower the official data to something reasonable (S3 did either one of these when he set max range to 18km instead of 20 and I think it was a good decision on his side).

So yeah, all in all I think this radar is pretty much finnished procedure-wise. The only thing still needed is IFF and proper screen skin (current one is from RP-22 to and it doesn't even match the correctly displayed data) + the lower gate border bug fix ofc. But it's still beta, this one here is only the testbed for what is coming in next MiG-21 update AFAIK.

PS: If ammount of bullshit if this post exceeds any reasonable limits just smack me with a baseball bat when I come tomorrow it's 0100h in Europe

[DeJotPe]

2: there is "breakaway" signal lamp at 2 o'clock in the RP-22 that tells you that you're about to crash with the plane you're aiming for (you must fly onto it as your radar beam shows the path to the missle - thats why it has radar beam recieiver in the cone in the back instead of usually seen there rocket engine). I think that also is the reason for +150km/h speed in attack - too much speed and you will fly into someone'e tail - even that the rocket is much much faster: when it miss, or when you're shooting at the formation this will lead you dangerously close to the B-52 tailgunners...

PS: i'm also from Poland;)

PPS: what hit ratio do you have? Against B-29 i had 4 victories whith 4 rockets (lucky me:). Against F-4 armed with bombs _only_ (simple QMB mission - they just flew straight to the waypoint and turn around to the base) i launch about 20 rockets without any hit (first few head-on-head before i realized its useless). Now i have hit ratio about every second to every fifth rocket - i launch them perfectly, F-4 are flying straight, sometimes they miss, sometimes they blow up - i think thats very realistic (as for il-2 possibilities).
Against maneuvering F-4 armed with rockets - there's any chance to obtain the hit: rocket itselfs makes barel rolls around the beam, it turns up and down and it maneuvers much too slow to make any turn to cath the plane... Wikipedia is right: K-5M is only against bombers;)
PPPS: I hate when enemy's AI is so passive. I would like to see "aggresive mode" in QMB to choose someday - i want them to crash on me, when they could't catch me. Now often they just break without any attempt to harm me...

[NS~mati140]

please do not full quote posts just one post above yours

Witam MEiL moze?

K-5M Alkali to byla bezuzyteczna kupa i koledzy z AMT ich kupnosc bardzo realistycznie odwzorowali... uzywaj Atolli. Na razie sa tylko Atolle tradycyjne, te naprowadzane termicznie. Dlatego po pierwsze nie zlapiesz odrzutowca od przodu, musisz byc po stronie dyszy zeby seeker cos zlapal, a po drugie dzialaja one niezaleznie od radaru - celem fazy przechwycenia w trybie "przechwycenia celu" w tym przypadku bylo umieszczenie wybranego celu w pierscieniu celowania (czyli dokladnie na wprost dzioba), po to by atolle zlapaly ten cel który chcemy, a nie którykolwiek.

Na razie nie ma w grze zadnego MiG-21 w którym uzywano radarowych atolli (R-3R) i radaru RP-21M (który obslugiwalo sie tak samo ale poprawiony do wspolpracy z R-3R), a poniewaz Alkali sa bezuzyteczne (i dobrze, bo takie maja byc) na razie nie opyla sie im kodzic beam riderów.

RP-21 nie ma lampki nakazujacej odejscie, ten mod symuluje RP-21 nie RP-22, ale na razie wystarczy przerywac przechwycenie po przekroczeniu minimalnej odleglosci odpalenia rakiet.
Minimalna odleglosc odpalenia wynika z faktu, ze tak Atoll jak i Sidewinder z którego go zerznieto wymaga 900-1000m na uzbrojenie glowicy po odpaleniu. Odpalisz go blizej - moze byc problem. Nie pamietam czy to jest zasymulowane, ale chyba jest. 150km/h to jest obserwacja - zazwyczaj taki B-52 leci ok 800-900 na godzine a ty lecisz w okolicach 1000, jesli gonisz mysliwiec to predkosc wzgledna bedzie duzo mniejsza (oczywiscie zakladajac ze przeciwnik nie ma RWR i nie bedzie uciekal gdy uslyszy charakterystyczne pikanie RP-21) a jak bedziesz próbowal stracic smiglowiec... No wlasnie. Ale tu prawdopodobnie nie bedziesz uzywal radaru.

A wogóle to proponuje polatac na waniliowych samolotach z JetWar (F-86 i MiG-17) pouzywac AIM-9B Sidewinder/K-13(R-3A) Atoll w walce manewrowej, zeby sie zapoznac z ich ograniczeniami (logiczny wydaje sie tu wybór Ruskich, ale miedzy pierwszym sidewinderem i pierwszym atollem na prawde nie ma róznicy. W ten sposób zorientujesz sie kiedy rakiety mozna odpalac zeby trafily (cel leci relatywnie prosto, jestes na godzinie 6, przeciazenie nie przekracza 2G itp).

Co do taktyki przy przechwyceniu - po pierwsze jesli jeszcze go nie masz, to wgraj moda Command and Control 3.031 (poprzednia wersja jest w zawarta w DBW 1.71, które polecam btw, wiec jesli uzywasz DBW to musisz wywalic wpisy dotyczace poprzedniej wersji ze stationary.ini) i w kazdej misji z przechwytywaniem (QMB odpada, musisz cos szybkiego zawsze zrobic sobie w FMB, bo w QMB bombowce lataja 300km/h w kólku), w jakims uzytecznym miejscu postaw obiekt "GCI(m)" (domyslnie ma zasieg 100km wiec jak bedzie potrzeba to mozesz go zwiekszyc dopisujac kilka linijek (podanych w instrukcji do moda) do pliku misji w notatniku). To symuluje kontrolera radaru na ziemi - w realu MiGi-21 zawsze byly naprowadzane z ziemi podczas przechwycenia. Korzystajac z danych które podaje ci ziemia (kierunek lotu i pulap celu, namiar i odleglosc do celu) polec tak, zebys byl juz na 6tej celu w momencie gdy pojawi sie on na ekranie radaru. Algorytm jest tu bardzo prosty - jesli kurs celu (target heading) jest wiekszy niz namiar na cel (bearing) lec kursem nieco mniejszym niz namiar i vice versa. Jesli namiar i kurs celu beda takie same to znaczy, ze jestes na 6tej - lec bezposrednio na namiar.

Jak pojawi sie cel lec tak by caly czas byl na osi pionowej, i jak bedzie ok 7 km od ciebie (pionowa skala jest lipna bo jest z RP-22, nie patrz na nia, górna krawedz radaru to jest 20km, srodek to 10) zaznacz go bramka (klawisze increase/decrease radar gain, musisz je ustawic w opcjach), zablokuj (switch radar mode) i radar powinien sie przestawic w tryb przechwycenia celu. To dobry moment by uzbroic Atolle (naciskaj klawisz hamulców dopóki nie zapali sie napis "K-13[R-3A] engagement ON" i nie uslyszysz niskiego bzyczenia) oczywiscie zakladajac ze same sie nie uzbroily (domyslnie startuja na auto na poczatku misji, potem mozna je dopiero wylaczyc - ja zawsze je wylaczam bo wlaczaja sie potem same gdy cel jest w poblizu robiac za OP radar). Manewruj tak zeby cel byl w pierscieniu celowania, kiedy znaczniki odleglosci wejda w strefe odpalenia rakiet. Teraz nasluchuj - jesli dzwiek seekera zmienil sie na wyzszy, to znaczy ze Atolle zlapaly cel - poczekaj az znaczniki beda tak jakos w polowie strefy (zeby sie upewnic ze trafia), odpal rakiety, zwrot, dopalacz i w nogi. Jesli dzwiek sie nie zmieni - rakiety nie zlapaly celu (bo na przyklad celowi skonczylo sie paliwo i leci bez silników - mialem taka sytuacje) - przerwij przechwycenie i albo spróbuj ponownie albo wiej. Tyle, masz czekliste:)

Co do F-4 i ich pasywnego AI, to po pierwsze tamten mod od jakiegos czasu nie byl updatowany (obecnie AIM-7 sa OP) wiec radze odgrzebac gdzies F-8 - podobne uzbrojenie i tyle samo silników alternatywnie dawaj Phantomom tylko sidewindery.
Powodem takiego zachowania jest fakt ze w IL-2 jesli samolot nie ma przednich karabinów/dzialek to mysli ze jest bombowcem. Mozna to naprawic kodem i MiG-21 chyba ma juz taki kod, ale F-4 jeszcze nie. Zeby F-4 cie zaatakowaly to albo musisz wziac F-4E (wersja dla USAF) i upewnic sie ze w wybranym loadoutcie sa dzialka, albo zrobic szybko misje w FMB i ustawic swój lot jako cel dla lotu jankesów.

Co do moich wyników to na tym (SM-12) modzie mam na razie 100% skutecznosci, ale ja latam na modzie JetWar 1956 odkad wyszla pierwsza wersja i jestem wprawiony w uzywaniu Atolli.

Sorry for a long foreign language post but I was answering to DeJotPe. I have written some info regarding interception tactics, so if someone is curious I can translate it

BTW, does someone know the structure of training files? I thought I would do training files for MiG-21 after next update is out, in a simmilar fashion to those for MiG-21 mod for Lock On - that would include RP-21 operations ofc.

[snachito]

please do not full quote posts just one post above yours

Hells yeah please translate as I always like learning any kind of tactics info!!

[NS~mati140]

Sure, so:

If someone introduced himself to jets with MiG-21 and SM-12, without any experience with Sabres and Frescos, I strongly suggest you do some dogfighting with Fresco and K-13 Atoll missiles - it will help you figure out what you can and can't do with those missiles in much less extreme environment than you get in Fishbed/Farmer.

First of all, don't use Alkali unless it's somehow justified by scenario or you want some aditional chalenge - use Atolls for interceptions, no matter if it's against bombers or fighters. Also, if you don't have it yet, install Command and Control mod - it's essential for interceptions with MiG-21 (or SM-12), especially when you play on realisitc difficulty settings. It's not cheating, IRL all interceptions by MiGs-21 where, if possible, ground controlled. MiG-21 even has a seperate GCI gauge for that purpose - it received the coded information from the ground controll and displayed required elevation and bearing to target/next waypoint. Since it's not simulated (and often wasn't even used for GCI) "GCI(m)" object is the best replacement. Place it in FMB wherever it is reasonable to have radar station and make sure it covers the area where interception takes place (deffault range is 100 km, you can adjust it by adding aproporiate lines to .mis file in notepad, you can find these lines in mod's readme).

After you take off head into mission area and wait for info from GCI. You should get target heading, altitude, bearing and distance. The goal is to use these info to get on enemy's six before you even start playing arround with radar. If target heading is higher than bearing, fly at slightly lower course than bearing and vice versa. When you see that the bearing is equal to target's heading, turn towards bearing and start observing radar. Optimally you should get on enemy's six even  before it appears on your radar or at least before it's in lock range.

Once you see the enemy on radar turn so that it appears exactly on screen's vertical axis and adjust your slope (you actually should be flying at the target's altitude given to you by ground control all the time) so that there are 2 vertical lines, one above and one below the target. When it is at 7km (don't look at scale, it's wrong, the top of the screen is 20km, the middle is 10km), select it with gate (use increase/decrease radar gain keys to move the gate) and lock on (select radar mode key). The radar should switch to track mode - you should see the target and two long horizontal lines extending from it. If you don't, press select radar mode key again to switch back to scan mode. If you can't find anymore - abort interception and either go for another run or RTB if skies are hot. If you can see the target in track mode (remember axis are switched now and verical axis shows elevation, not distance), arm the missiles and manouver your aircraft so that the target appears in the middle of the aiming circle - that's important when attacking with heat seeking missiles since they won't follow your lock, this is the only way to force them to track the target you selected. If you manage to do this, proceed until distance markers move above the gap, showing permissible launch range. If you lose the target at this point, abort interception and go for another run, don't try to scan at this distance. Once you move into permissible launch range you should imediately hear change in tone signaling missile lock - if it doesn't happen, wait until you get to like 1/2 of permissible launch range and abort. If missiles locked on, make sure that target is still in the aiming circle and 1/2 of prermissible launch range, launch missiles, breakaway, maximum power and go RTB/ proceed to next target. If you approach to fast and don't launch the missiles before reaching inner border of permissible launch range (it's arround 1.5km IIRC) don't fire missles, breakaway and go for another run.

Also remember that if you can't approach the target from level, you should rather approach from below instead of above - RP-21 is not look down/shoot down capable, if you get ground clutter in track mode, you'll lose the lock. Don't let it happen.

All of this is for bomber/trasporter targets. If you're intercepting a fighter, first thing to do once you lock on is to use the info given you by radar in track mode to get visual on your target. If it happens at night - well, I'm gonna find out some good procedure for that, but in either situation your target probably won't be as forgiving and will try to manouver. At this point it will stop being an interception and start being a dogfight.