Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[SAS~Anto]

Okay RAF enthusiasts! I have an important question that needs answering in relation to an upcoming mod. Could some please tell me exactly WHICH models of Merlin (and Griffin) had the Coffman starter system?

So far I have confirmed the following:
Merlin XII
Merlin 32
Merlin 68

Are there any other models that were equipped with it? As I otherwise understand, the Merlins and Griffins used a direct electric starter.

[SAS~Storebror]

AFAIK the Merlin VIII, 30, 47 and 61 should have used coffman cartridges as well.
Hard to tell about the Griffons... a number of early versions are supposed to have used coffman starters but don't ask me which in particular.
The only thing I'm 98% sure of is the Griffon 61 which powered the Mk 21 through Mk 24 versions of the Spitfire.

Some images of the Coffman starter, particularly Griffon related, first off the starter itself:


Mounted on a Griffon powered Spitfire:


And finally a drawing about how to equip Griffons with Coffmans:


Best regards - Mike

[si1va]

I didn't know any of the spits used a cartridge starter, I will have to read more about them, thanks

Are you planning a sound enhancement?

[SAS~Anto]

Cheers Mike, will add Coffman starters to those engines 

si1va: That is part of the plan. In fact many mod packs ago, the Napier Sabre and Early Merlins actually had a cartridge sound effect at startup. Anyway I am currently updating the 'engines' part of the AI Engines etc mod and this includes revision of the startup sequences for all aircraft. Not only will they vary between engine configuration (inline, radial, rotary etc), it will also be influenced by the type of starter system (Electric inertia drive, manual inertia drive, direct electric cranking, cartridge or pneumatic).

It is currently being beta tested as we speak

[David Prosser]

Hi, SAS~Anto. My uncle serviced Corsairs during the war. He spoke of putting a cartridge in the breech to start them. So, I guess they had cartridge ignition.

cheers

David Prosser

[SAS~Storebror]

Hi David,

In fact most of the U.S. radial engines used cartridge starters during WW2.
As much as Merlins are concerned, the coffman starter was commonly used on sea based versions of spitfires (and some hurricanes) since the light carriers simply lacked the required ground supply to operate "normal" engine versions. Another reason to use coffmans on Merlins were the high altitude engine versions with cabin pressure blowers attached. In that case it was simply a matter of construction - there was little space to attach the blower and an electrical starter so a coffman device came in handy there.
That's basically how you can distinguish between coffman and non-coffman merlins: Sea based or high altitude fighter? Coffman. Others? Electrical.

Griffons are a different story. Since the griffon design was way old already when it eventually was put into service, several griffon versions across the series still used coffman starters (obviously for no special reason) while others were "already" equipped with electrical starters (for unification).

Best regards - Mike

[David Prosser]

Thanks for that info, Mike.

cheers

David

[Plowshare]

So we will finally get rid of the electric start on the Corsairs? Terrific!! This has been a gripe of mine ever since it was introduced way-back-when.

Bob

[David Prosser]

Hi, Plowshare. I've been following this thread. Then I watched a WWII clip on the Corsair. Cartridge starting just like uncle Cyril said.

cheers

David Prosser

[razor1uk]

Like that Coffman diagram, even if its lacking somewhat, using ceramic beads to act a mini thermal batteries to keep the charging temp up; although in in the diag' they seem very large, like its a semi gas and pellet on pellet force, while the heat & pressure builds & pushes the piston like on a push-to-turn/'monkey' screwdriver to turn the starter dog gearing... cool

[Kopfdorfer]

Sorry to take so long to notice this post.
I can verify that the Rolls Royce Griffon IIB powering Fairey Firefly F Mk I and FR Mk I s did use a Coffman starter.
Our local Aviation Museum , at which I am a volunteer , has a Firefly FR Mk I (PP462) powered by a Griffon IIB .
When she was recovered from Ethiopia ,  and renovation started , she was equipped with a Coffman.
We have since installed an electric starter system - it is hard to come by Coffman cartidges now!!!.
The Coffman ( what is left of it) is in a bin under my work table awaiting revitalization as a floor display.

Sincerely ,

Kopfdorfer

[shardana]

Will this great new mod work on all versions of the game? I'a rebel......