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Author Topic: Midway class carrier  (Read 18602 times)

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Sleepingdragon

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Re: Midway class carrier
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2012, 09:49:58 PM »

Now that is just cool.  :D I bet the NVA was wondering "WTF?" when that landed on some AA gunner's head.
-------------------------------
Now here is the straight deck version, which is pretty amazing.
Was enroute to the Pacific when the war ended. More planes than an Essex, and much more deck space and heavier AA defense.


Note the galleries of single 5" 38 turrets taking all the deck edges along with quad 40s, TWO such mounts on the bow. Also, the broad stack kinda reminds me a bit of Saratoga.




She was the first deck with F8F Bearcats, and would have been in combat with them if the war had lasted another two weeks (if what I've read is accurate).




And SBC Helldivers. She had these well into the 40s.


She also wound up with Skyraiders soon, along with about anything the Navy wanted to put on her huge deck. This is NOT a "Navy T-6", it's an SNJ, the navy version with non-steerable tailwheel.


She operated ADs off Korea, just as she later operated the A-1s after they had been redesignated.


Then the Navy just went totally ape, as usually happens when foresight isn't restricted. They launched several V-2s from her deck with an interesting launcher arrangement. I can just see the object guys going nuts trying to figure out a way to get such on deck. Check the writing on the side of the V-2.


This is right outta the Twilight Zone, or an early 50s sci fi movie.


WHOOSH....apparently it worked. Man I wish I'd been around with my modern cameras back then.


Then the Navy experimented with heavier bomber types, as the new USAF was apparently getting its revenge on the battleship admirals for obstructing the creation of an independant air force. General Tooey Spatz had even asked "what do we need a navy for", since the atom bombs delivered by heavy bombers supposedly meant that carriers and even the Navy itself weren't needed. Nukes back then were too big and heavy to be carried by TBFs etc, so they had to find an atom capable bomber to fly off the decks to justify their budget. Here a new (and early model) P-2 Neptune makes a Jato take off. Note the tail gunners position, and the odd absence of a top turret. P-2s had no trouble launching from the Midway.




However, the P-2 couldn't recover on the carrier, and had to fly to a land base. This led to the AJ Savage, a twin engine nuke bomber that could operate off the Midway class carriers. This kept the Navy alive, as they had already been forced to scrap the incomplete new "super carrier" USS America (not the Kitty Hawk class one they just sank as a target) before it was half done; the funding went to the B-36. The AJ helped keep the Navy budget alive.




What's amazing is that they could launch Savages while launching fighters.


In addition to Banshees, the Midway got Panthers in time for Korea. Note the TBF modified to the ASW version, about to be craned onto the deck. also, are those cars cool, or what? Where's my time transporter?


The interesting F3D Skynight operated successfully over Korea, and scored a few Migs I believe. This is begging to be modelled.


F9F and a recon Banshee.


And don't forget the F4U-5s that served on Midway in Korea.


Lots of deck space on the original Midway straight deck.


The F3D was flight test about the same time as the F7U Cutlass on the deck of the Midway. Modelers should keep in mind that the Cutlass wasn't as successful as it was looked.


It was during this time that the Navy apparently was experimenting with the "don't ask, don't tell" concept on the Midway :-* . Apparently the Navy met with more success than the air force did. (I'm just messing with you Navy guys, don't throw things at me  ::) .


The straight deck also operated the Cougar, which we also have.


Cougars and Skyraiders after Korea in the Mid 50s.


Ok, I'm done. I just wanted to show what is possible with this ship class in its varied guises. I know all the Navy guys on here have all sorts of adventures, like the above mentioned shaft warping run to the Persian gulf in the Constellation in 79. Roosevelt was taken out of service in the late 70s I think, and Coral sea operated for a while in the late 70s without an airwing due to budget cuts I believe. That could make for an interesting alternate history project. Thanks for all the work you guys do on this stuff for us. I hope to be worthy in my FMB work.

 








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poudjik

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Re: Midway class carrier
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2012, 05:35:19 PM »

Need more more time for me.
http://kura2.photozou.jp/pub/290/2437290/photo/156180002.jpg

Not to pressure you or anything western, is there any news on this project? If possible, we'd love to follow-up on a dedicated topic.

Good luck!
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4S_Vega

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Re: Midway class carrier
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2012, 07:18:12 PM »

   Off Vietnam, mid 60s; Note the 5" 38 mounts that still equip the ship, as these were removed soon after this. Also note the A-1s, A-4Es, F-8s, F-4s, with a surprisingly high number of larger planes; KA-3/EA-3, and E-1 AEW planes with that odd dome. Mysteriously, the Navy had no problem back then operating such a versatile mix of planes, compared to now.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b63/Enforcer572005/Carriers/72warshipintnl-007b_zps013e7912.jpg


i think is before Vietnam era

there are not F-4 Phantoms on the deck but FH3 Demon ;)
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Sleepingdragon

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Re: Midway class carrier
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2012, 04:25:46 PM »

THANK YOU Vega for the correction. I didn't look closely enough, and I will blame my eyes which are of the same vintage as those planes. I forgot about the F3H and how similar it looked (from a distance to an old guy) to the F-4.

I do hope this project sees life, as the F-4 did not operate off the Lexington class CVAs. I know it's all we got for them to land on right now, but Midway would really fill a niche, as would the other Midway class CVAs. I'm just getting into the MASSIVE amount of stuff in the DBW mod, and wish I could do more than the limited (but very extensive) project I'm updating in the FMB.

Here's a shot I took of the only AJ Savage on display that I know of, in the Naval aviation Museum in Pensecola Fla. Sorry for that ol girl getting in the way....back about 89.


   EDIT:
HEY  ??? , I just noticed something in that pic above. The starboard aft elevator is TILTING ! WTF is up with that? Hello, former Navy guys, some elaboration on this feature will re-assure me that I'm not suffering from a medication effect.  :o
(I mean, they can't go thru the Panama canal, which I think is what limited the beam of the Essex class, so why would it need to tilt?).
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zdragon

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Re: Midway class carrier
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2012, 10:17:33 PM »

If you are referring to the A3D on the carrier then its not the elevator but the vertical tail that is bent over.  It is a feature used on both the A3D and AJ savage and the more recent S-3 viking to reduce their height to fit in the smaller hanger decks where height was a big issue.  My dad flew the viking and told me that when i was younger and asked if the plane was broken.  Hanger height was always an issue on the smaller carriers with those large vertical tail fins on planes.



http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/Bager1968/Aircraft/attack-strike%2520aircraft/RA-3Bfolded.jpg
and
http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/Bager1968/Aircraft/ASW%2520aircraft/S-3folded.jpg
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Blazing

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Re: Midway class carrier
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2012, 03:15:51 AM »

no if you look closer at the carrier the side elevator is actually at an angle
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zdragon

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Re: Midway class carrier
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2012, 04:58:47 PM »

oh, that elevator lol, by bad on that one  :-[ .  To much flying causes me to only see references for planes out of everything.  I never knew why for that, my dad was on the forestall class carriers. (Saratoga and Independence)
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Sleepingdragon

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Re: Midway class carrier
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2012, 09:46:56 PM »

 ;D Ha! I do that to, again I'm blaming my Forrestal class vintage brain for such.

Zdragon, thanx for posting that about the A3D, along with nifty Revell kit; I never realized it had a folding tail. I can't imagine flying that thing off any carrier, much less an Essex. Mucho grande spheres on all the pilots flying those things.  :o

I can't find anything about the tilting elevator though. The Essex class CVs had to remove a couple of 40mm tubs mounted low on the hulls to get thru the Panama Canal I believe, but these things can't fit to begin with (also qualified with "I think", or at least "I'm pretty sure"). And it was at sea in the photo, not in port etc. Hmmmm......  :-X

Oh, and thanx for directing me to those 2 excellent shots.
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zdragon

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Re: Midway class carrier
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2012, 02:09:04 PM »

That would be my guess.  That elevator does stick out quite a bit, even when its semi-folded like that.  Maybe for underway replenishment too to possibly not remove the superstructure of the supply ship if it got close?  Midways were conventionally powered ships.  Midways also had a wider beam after they got their angled deck than the scb-125 essex's so i can see it needing to try and make itself skinnier for things like the panama.
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Sleepingdragon

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Re: Midway class carrier
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2012, 05:54:34 PM »

 :-\  That makes sense big time. The tenders would need the clearance, if they refuel on that side of hte ship, which would seem to be the only option since the the angled deck gets in the way on the port side. Freaks me how much new stuff I learn on here despite my constant study of such since I could read. Those were monsterous sized ships for their time.
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AG-51_Razor

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Re: Midway class carrier
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2012, 10:15:52 PM »

When they put the angled deck on the Essex class, the after elevator was moved out the the side. In order for it to be able to still transit the Panama Canal, they had to make the elevator fold up. My guess is that this was also the case for the Midway Class. After this, I don't believe that any of our carriers would fit through the canal. Not sure about that but seeing pictures of Essex clas ships squeezing through, it's hard to imagine a Nimitz, or even a Forestall class going through there.
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Sleepingdragon

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Re: Midway class carrier
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2012, 01:39:17 AM »

I've got to check the beam dimensions (if I can remember), because the panama canal width was the limiting factor on the Essex class, and I'm pretty sure the Midways were bigger. Maybe we should call Mulder and Skully. Rest assured that the Forrestal class and after could not transit the canal.

I had no idea that the Essex elevators would do that.
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