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[Sleepingdragon]

I have always been fascinated wiht the B-50 and its derivatives, but it's been neglected by most sims and aviation writers. We already have the B-29, and I've used the silver plate and KB-29 mods, and they are really incredible (despite having totally incorrect pre war default markings that I really hope can be corrected for static use at least).

Few realize that a super B-29 flew in 44 with far more powerful engines, and an extra 40,000 lbs of fuel/ordinance, as well as an improved handling system that made it far easier to fly and more manuverable, and was built with a new aluminum alloy and greatly strengthened wings and fuselage structure. That thing could almost hit 400mph, and many did on occasions.

I believe this would require a minimum of modification structurally, which I realize is still alot of work (i looked closely at the KB-29 and was impressed), and will need a bit of an FM mod, as well as a better handling feel. She was the primary USAF nuke delivery system for the first half of the 50s.


Note the spinners, the enlarged tail (which folded for hangars btw, though I've not seen a pic of that), the large intakes for the engines, and the return of the 20mm to the tail.

 MODEL   B-50A
 CREW   11
 ENGINE   4 x Pratt & Whitney R-4360-35 Wasp Major, 2610kW
 WEIGHTS
    Take-off weight   76389 kg   168410 lb
    Empty weight   36764 kg   81051 lb
 DIMENSIONS
    Wingspan   43.05 m   141 ft 3 in
    Length   30.18 m   99 ft 0 in
    Height   9.96 m   33 ft 8 in
    Wing area   161.55 m2   1738.91 sq ft
 PERFORMANCE
    Max. speed   620 km/h   385 mph
    Cruise speed   378 km/h   235 mph
    Ceiling   11280 m   37000 ft
    Range   7483 km   4650 miles
 ARMAMENT   12 x 12.7mm machine-guns, 1 x 20mm cannon, 9000kg of bombs

The two primary bomber models were the A and the D, while the tankers had two J-47 jets added to the wings outboard along with the two refueling pods. It was even faster, and would have really added to the planes potential as a bomber if still used as such at the time they were installed on the tankers.

This RC model is pretty accurate except for the two bladed props. I thnk I would have found some 4 bladed ones. The plane had the turrets removed from many of the bombers, adn all were removed from the tankers, recon, ECM, and weather versions as they were converted in the late 50s early 60s.


And this monster is supposedly the largest RC scale model in the world, short of military drones. Still with two bladed props though.


This is a great shot of a KB-50 landing. Note the j-47 jets and position of the refueling pods. The jetwar project really needs this plane, but in both DBW and HSFX. An AI version with appropriate responses would be just as important as a flyable one of both types.


The skinners could go nuts with this, as there are a bunch of skins for the various models. I beieve this is a weather version in the late 50s, but I have no idea why they would have the bomb bay doors open. Note the simplified nose perspex with the reduced framing. This would be about the only modification needed for the cockpit, though the tankers might could use the throttle controls for the jets. Not that important though. We still have the basic plane and cockpit.


One of the 5 remaining, this one at the Pima air museum. Note the shape of the engine intakes. These engines had 3000 hp v. the 2200 hp of the original B-29 engines, and they were far more reliable.



An early B-50A beating up an airbase. They had such improved handling and excess power that I guess it was too much to resist. My late Dad had a friend (fellow flight instructor in the 60s) who had served on B-50s, and I was fascinated by teh tales he told of htem, claiming once that his B-50 kept up with some low flying B-26s (actually A-26) on a low level hop, and this was before the jets were added upon conversion to tankers.



Another view frm underneath. Still has the gun turrets, and I think that's radar. A clear veiw of some modding that might have to be made.


I believe htis is a B-50A. Like I said, skinners would go nuts. This one still has the gun turrets.


A great shot of the simplified perspex on the nose. Sometimes they had spinners. I think this is a weather version, but they used ECM and recon also. Several were lost to Soviet Migs, but that's not well detailed.


KB-50 refueling an FJ4. Would be a cost effective way to introduce another really important plane to the jetwar collection.


A KB-50 in 1963 hooking up an EB-66, F-101, and an F-100. Note the three hoses trailing.


A weather WB-50 with an odd stack looking thingy.


A shot I wish I had taken of a KB-50.


A nice understudy of the details of a B-50 that still has its turrets.


A B-50D with the turrets removed.


Nice view of a B-50A. Note the turrets are still on this one.


A B-50D with its guns still onboard. NOTE the cool looking spinners.


Last one, for now. Check the paint job on the B-50 in the background. No, they were not used in Korea, as they were the primary nuke deterrent at that time. They would have faired much better over Korea than the much slower B-29s. ALSO note that ugly tile on the quanset hut. I had my doubts about the bricks on the ends of the ones in the sim, but thten I saw this.


I do hope an intrepid modeler (or somebody with way too much time on their hands) can modify the current B-29 and give us this far more modern bomber/tanker. Thank you.

[benitomuso]

Nice Info! I didn't know anything about this B-29 Mark II before reading references in SAS. Interesting.
Regards,
                      Pablo

[SAS~Anto]

The B-50D is already WIP, with plans to make the KB-50J/K. Will make a public announcement in coming weeks once the beta test is available for modders. Thank you for the extra info and pictures though. I have been searching high and low for it, but if you have any good pictures of the refuelling receptacle introduced from the B-50D onwards, that would be greatly appreciated.

As for use in Korea, well the B-50 did see action there but only the photo reconnaissance RB-50 was used until the arrival of the RB-47.

[Sleepingdragon]

  Woo hoo !! I did a search on here but found only a "rumor" months ago. This is great, as it will add to the jetwar/1956/Korea/cold war/alternate history stuff we can do; I know I'll sure use it, and hope that my efforts in the FMB are worthy of your work.

I found a few shots of the refueling receptacle on the B-50D, but they are very few, and of course they are not the clearest quality and are small images. However, I did find a few shots of a scale model that shows it pretty clearly right in front of the top turret. It appears that they had to traverse the turret to the side to clear it  ??? . That might have to be incorporated into an AI routine to actually refuel.

Scale models are actually the best reference for this methinks, as they are very clear shots, show the colors involved, and are usually very accurate (I was a modeler myself, and we are an OCD bunch of people  - it's gotta be right).

This 1/72 scale model used aftermarket addons to go into this much detail. Note the open receptacle doors, which don't look very aerodynamic.


THis shot shows the location and shape better. The nozzle itself isn't very visible, but I think it safe to assume a round opening in the middle of it. Interesting how close it is to the turret, result of an improvised afterthought.


Shot from the front, the angle of the doors to reduce drag is obvious.


This tiny shot is one of the few I found from a KB-29 boom operator. I'm sure there are hundreds more, but not very many on the internet. One is supposed to be in the osprey book "B-29s in Action", but I don't have that one. Note the traversed guns.


This article shows a better angle, probably from one of the side blisters on the KB-29, not taken by the boom operator as the first one was. Note the position of the boom operator. What a view.
I had to put these in photoshop to increase the size a bit and to see the detail. Wish we had access to the original shots in a bigger format.


A shot of a KC-97 refueling a B-50D, showing the doors open. A different angle that I wish was a bit bigger and closer.


THis model was made from a B-29 kit using some aftermarket add-ons, including the enlarged flaps with the extended leading edge. I included these in case you guys needed to see a clearer shot of them.




I also found some more shots of the WB-50 at the USAF museum in Dayton. This plane was outside when I was last there 20 yrs ago (I haven't found the shots I took yet to see if they are of any use).
The lighting is pretty good.


Note the simplified perspex with reduced framing in the later B-50s.


Interesting how the prop blades are painted yellow at the base.






Check this shot of an RB-50 with an INVERTED NOSE PERSPEX; makes sense, as it would sure help the camera work with that big clear section of plexiglass. I believe the RB-50s Kept thier tail guns.


I found this shot, albeit absurdly tiny (gets on my nerves), of the original B-50A that set a record round the world flight by being refueled from a KB-29 using an improvised hose and drogue system. I don't think this is really worth modeling this one off example, but I thought it was interesting.


The streamlined top turret caused a bit of buffeting, so they replaced them on many aircraft with the original 4 gun round turret from B-29s. looked kinda odd mounted on the base meant for the teardrop shaped turret.


I didn't know that B-50s were used to launch X-2s.


And here's the B-50 line in Seattle. Note the huge engines.


The pilot's instrument panel. found this during this epic search, so I may as well post it.


The co-pilot's panel.


And here's one of that huge RC B-50 (biggest of the two, electric powered btw) lifting off. An interesting angle.


My only other request is that somehow, someway, the powers that be can arrange for this to be included in both DBW and HSFX, which I realize may be a bit tricky since the folder structure is totally different. 

[SloppyJoe]

I can totally dig this plane.

[SAS~Anto]

Brilliant, thanks for that extra info! Unfortunately many of the books I have dug go into the B-29 in detail but then only dedicate a handful of pages to the B-50. Those shots of the refuelling doors are fantastic and exactly what we needed. Also good to get a nice extended shot of the flaps. Didn't know about the issue with the top turret, always wondered why some of these aircraft ran these old turrets.

No release date as of yet, as I'm flat out with other projects as are the 3D modellers working on this. That said, not far off a beta in the private modders area.

[Sleepingdragon]

  Roger on that. Glad I was of some help. I'm embarrassed to divulge the amount of time I spent on this (I can't believe these outfits that post 12 kb photos), but I wanted to contribute something ohter than just FMB stuff, which I haven't posted anything on since I did 'VVS Fighters pt.1' about a million yrs ago. I'm working on it though,and have decided to put most of my efforts in the post war era, both historical and alternate universe stuff (Few realize the existence of a new alternate universe everytime a Nuke was tested - I guess I watched too much Star Trek, where I stole the idea).

I didn't realize that the weapons bay had to be enlarged so much to accept the enormous bombs of the time. Taht's why the range was so much shorter despite teh  40,000 lb increase in loaded weight, and why they had those huge external tanks. The bombs were monsterous cylinders; i photographed one at the USAF  Museum beside the B-36. That thing was the size of an RV. Would be interesting to model. I will try and find the slides I shot 20 yrs ago, they are stashed with massive amounts of others, so it may take me a bit.

My Dad's friend "Peirce", (he always drove a Vette) told tales of his service on the B-50s, including having to manually crank down a stubborn nose gear, and (this is his claim, not mine) he swore his pilot latched onto a flight of A-26 Invaders on a high speed cross country, and the A-26s (B-26 at that time) tried to outrun the B-50 but couldn't. I figure a 390 mph top speed could do that, especially if they didn't have a full fuel load. That must have been interesting. I'd love to recreate that in the sim someday. That shot in the first post above of the B-50 making a high speed pass very low was actually a D model, not an A.
Not too hard to imagine at least keeping up with the Invaders for a while. I don't remember what crew position he held, as this was in the mid 60s when I was in elementary school, but I was still a sponge for soaking up any such stories I heard. I could ID anything in the sky or in any book when I was a kid, and loved those tales his friends would tell.

I do remember that I saw a couple of KB-50s flying over that part of Southern Ala, pretty close to Egland/Tyndal AF bases where we went to the airshows. My mother thought they were KB-29s, but obvously they were KB-50s in the early 60s.

Here's a link to the hyperscale site where there are countless shots of endless scale models, where I got the above shots. Useful for making computer models.
http://hyperscale.com/index_air_bc.htm

And here are a few other shots of a different B-50 model that shows a little bit of the flaps and trailing edges (which I mistakenly referred to as leading edge in the last post above). Shows the slight amount of extension over the B-29, along with the extended nacelles on engine 4. I didn't realize how much bigger those massive engines were, and that the nacelles had to be that much larger.




The same sight had a B-29 with the wing well illustrated. Compare the trailing edge and lack of a trailing edge nacelle extension on engines 1 and 4. I hope this is useful.


There was one other B-50D taht was a kit right out of the box. I thought those may be the receptacle doors scribed in front of the cockpit, but they don't come close to matching.


That site above has all kindsa stuff, including alot of jetwar1956 stuff that might be kinda hard to find much of, such as.......






I probably should post that site where the other modders can see it. I know they can use the details.

If you guys need to find something regarding this project, let me know, as I will try to help. I hope you guys don't get too distracted, as I can use these B-50 variants in my post war projects, uncluding the one I"ve resurected I worked on for 2 yrs. Thankx for all the work on this you are doing.

[tooslow]

When I was in College I met a guy that had been a B-50 bomber pilot.   As I recall (and my recollections can be rather cloudy as that was in the 1960s) … he had originally flown B-29s over Japan and then later flew the B-50 in the post war. 

He commented that the reliability of the R-4360’s was poor.  On about half his missions he would lose at least one (or more) engine(s) and this was a rather common failure rate in his group … however the B-50 always brought him home.   Also he added that the B-50 flew better on three engines than the B-29 did on four.   The R-4360 engines were that much more powerful.  Also he noted that a B-29 under any conditions had a negative climb rate on two engines and a B-50 light on fuel could even climb on two engines.   

He eventually flew B-36s, B-45s and finally his favorite the B-47.  He left the service before the B-52s became operational.

[SAS~Anto]

Well might as well post a preview pic and declare this official. 3D work by Red_Fox90 and Lisek, Java and temp FM by myself. This is about 2 months old and the B-50D build has progressed significantly since then but anyway, here is an in-game alpha of it being refuelled by the KB-29:

[Sleepingdragon]

VERY nice. The nacelles and the tail look great. Just do me ONE favor, and make sure the default insignia is a post war type like the KB-29 in the shot. They have the prewar insignia as default and look kinda silly in the static version on the ground. The post war with the stripe with USAF etc would really llook right in the static version on the ground. I am impressed though, lots of work I see.

Gotta make sure that turret is traversed to the side for the clearance if you can, though I realize that may be a bit complicated and not cost effecctive time wise. The one piece perspex in the nose might save a bit of time as well.

Some nice work and dedication there. Remember that in the tail gunners position, they re-introduced the 20mm in between the .50s. Gonna need that to deal with Migs. Love the wing tanks to.

[Sleepingdragon]

I FOUND THE BOMB IT USUALLY CARRIED WOO HOO ! 
Pardon my excitement, but I found this on the USAF museum site while looking for period nukes in the coldwar section. It is a Mk VI atomic bomb based on the design and mechanism of the Nagasaki bomb, and is very similar in shape and size. Note the B-36 in teh background.

It saw 6 different versions made from 1950 to 56, and was in the inventory until the early 60s. It was designed to be carried by B-50s and B-29s. The explosive range is listed as 1 kiloton. Kinda light actually. I believe they probably carried at least two of these, since the B-50 was designed to carry an extra 40,000lbs more than the B-29, and was stressed for it.



The Fact sheet on the USAF site reads as follows:
"Developed in 1949, the Mark VI Aerial Bomb was basically an improved version of the "Fat Man" bomb that was dropped on Nagasaki, Japan, in 1945. An implosion bomb (involving implosion-triggered plutonium fission), it had a higher yield, was lighter and had improved ballistic (flying) characteristics. It could be carried internally on B-29, B-36, B-47, B-50 and B-52 aircraft, and the bombardier could set the height above ground of the explosion while the aircraft was in flight. The Mark VI underwent seven modifications -- Mod 0 to Mod 6 -- between 1951 and 1955. It was the first mass produced nuclear weapon. The last Mark VI was retired in 1962.

TECHNICAL NOTES:
Length: 10 ft. 7 in.
Diameter: 60 in.
Weight: 8500 lbs.
Yield: Kiloton range (One kiloton equals 1,000 tons of TNT)"

[SAS~Anto]

Cheers for the info! As I understand, the different mods were to do with fusing and yield. Though rated as kiloton range (not 1 kilton) you could alter the effective yield of the blast based on the altitude which it was triggered. Wikipedia states base on fusing options and pit sizes, it could be calibrated from 8kT to 160kT. Thanks to the fusing code in 4.11.1m, it should be possible to model at least the explosion height. Since having massive nukes in game is not practical for gameplay purposes, I'll limit the yield of the Mark 6 to 26kT (which is slightly larger than the existing bombs)

Now as for carrying two of these bombs, can you find some more info for me regarding this?