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Author Topic: Certificate's Ai Mod  (Read 44662 times)

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Wildchild

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Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2011, 08:40:13 PM »

Were is certificate anyway?
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LuseKofte

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Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
« Reply #49 on: July 18, 2011, 07:15:29 AM »

[quote
Regarding the AI. I hope that someone can improve it because for me it is one of the weakest points in the nice game.

 ;) that woud be the best of all mod FB1946. only CERTIFICATE made something about this till 2yrs ago..was he the only genius here? ::)
[/quote]

Getting AI to think is like making humanoids, Actually the strongest point in this game is the AI, if you think our AI is dumb try any other simulation even clod the new warthog they are really stupid in other games compare to this game. I think it shows the difficulty in this task making AI inpredictiable. But good luck, because it will improve game a lot.
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Wildchild

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Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
« Reply #50 on: July 18, 2011, 12:28:15 PM »

Would it be possible for a player to go online and record other pilots movements and implement those into the AI?
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SAS~Anto

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Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2011, 08:51:54 PM »

Would it be possible for a player to go online and record other pilots movements and implement those into the AI?

I wish that was possible!
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_AUS_Salmo

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Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
« Reply #52 on: July 18, 2011, 11:08:09 PM »

AI aircraft movements are controlled by the "manouvers" file. This is a huge file that contains a large number of different types of manouvers that can be performed by AI's. Here's just a small sample of some of the manouvers to give you an idea of the range of manouvers that are coded for:

PULL_UP; LEVEL_PLANE; ROLL; ROLL_90; ROLL_180; SPIRAL_BRAKE; SPIRAL_UP; SPIRAL_DOWN; CLIMB; DIVING_0_RPM; DIVING_30_DE; DIVING_45_DEG; TURN; MIL_TURN; LOOP; LOOP_DOWN; HALF_LOOP_UP; HALF_LOOP_DOWN; STALL;
SPEEDUP; BELL; FOLLOW; LANDING; TAKEOFF; ATTACK; WAVEOUT; SINUS; ZIGZAG_UP; ZIGZAG_DOWN; ZIGZAG_SPIT; HALF_LOOP_DOWN_135; HARTMANN_REDOUT; ROLL_360; STALL_POKRYSHKIN; BARREL_POKRYSHKIN; SLIDE_LEVEL; SLIDE_DESCENT; RANVERSMAN; CUBAN; CUBAN_INVERT; GATTACK; PILOT_DEAD; HANG_ON; DELAY; EMERGENCY_LANDING; GATTACK_DIVE; GATTACK_TORPEDO; GATTACK_CASSETTE; GATTACK_KAMIKAZE; GATTACK_TINYTIM; FAR_FOLLOW; SPIRAL_DOWN_SLOW; FOLLOW_SPIRAL_UP; SINUS_SHALLOW; GAIN; SEPARATE; BE_NEAR; EVADE_UP; EVADE_DN; ENERGY_ATTACK; ATTACK_BOMBER; PARKED_STARTUP; COVER; TAXI; RUNWAY; FAR_COVER; TAKEOFF_VTOL_A; LANDING_VTOL_A; CLIMBFOR_ADVANTAGE; MOD_ATTACK;

There are two issue here: (1) Whether the range of manouvers needs expanding, and (2) whether the 'inteligence' of the AI in using those manouvers needs improving. Can I suggest that people address these issues, rather than generic complaints about "poor AI manouvers" & requests for "beter AI performance". Make requests for specific manouvers that are not in-game, or to be more specific about what is is that they percieve as poor AI performance. That way the coding guru's can get a better idea of how to improve the manouvers file.

I'll kick it off with some specifics:
(1) AI just gliding off anywhere when their engines are dead, even if there is an airfield closeby. Would be good if AI could attempt an emergency landing.
(2) Thatch-weave manouver for allied AI pairs, particularly after mid-WW2.
(3) High & low Yo-Yo manouvers
(4) Immelmann manouver
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SAS~Anto

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Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2011, 01:44:20 AM »

The biggest issue is more the 2nd. The AI in game currently don't use a fair amount of those maneouvers or don't use them well (e.g. trying to do barrel rolls at low level!)

There is some progress with this which will become available soon. For now, there is a beta 'AI Engines Hotkeys' mod available in DBW which at least included Cert's AI mod.
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Far77

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Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
« Reply #54 on: July 19, 2011, 10:36:56 PM »

I can add that enemy-AI can accelerate his aircraft (as some unseen powerful rocket engine is turn on on his airplane for a fraction of a second) if you shoot at him (while shooting usually ~perpendicular to its course). Or it can fastly slow down for a fraction of a second (for example when AI shoot at your airplane or another AI from behind).

Some heavy bombers can swing their wings ("being frightened") like fighters. :)
And some fighters can swing/roll their wings as propellers...

But there are some proper exceptions. For me AI of Il-10 is one of the best. It flies smoothly, doesnot swing/shake his wings (at least I can't remember seeing this). The only overdoze is its fantastic accurate shooting (maybe the best for wing-mounted cannons) despite its crew (cockpit) very poor ergonomy and primitive gunsights.

It would be nice if some software expert look at its coding.

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_AUS_Salmo

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Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2011, 07:24:14 AM »

What is needed is a very carefull and detailed DECISION procedure that will screw up as little as possible given the variety of situations that could be presented to AI.
Here ...here ... :)
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andqui

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Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2011, 08:39:34 AM »

One thing that is missing from the vast majority of AI representations is a sense of the "larger picture". To take Il-2 as an example, no matter how well the AI knows how and when to pull a split-s or how to keep it's speed up in a fight, a lone AI fighter will chase down and attack any enemy that it sees, no matter how badly the odds are stacked against it. As it is, the AI's main goal is just to fight, instead of to fight and live. In most situations, and Il2 dogfight will go on until all but one or two of one side get's shot down, and the only time the AI breaks off the fight is when they're damaged or out of ammo. IRL, loosing a third of your side in a fight was a devastating loss, yet it happens with certainty each time groups of AI fight. The only exception happens when the mission uses high-speed aircraft like jets, when the various aircraft get separated and the AI's poor shooting leaves a number alive at the end. The AI never sees that it is the only friendly fighter in the air, surrounded by enemy aircraft, says "Oh sh!t" and dives for the deck as fast as it can and goes home, which frequently happened. The AI recognizes some aircraft as energy-fighters, and does dive as a combat tactic, but instead of extending away to RTB or to climb safely and get energy back, the AI simply pulls out at the bottom and zoom climbs up, leaving it even more vulnerable than if it had stayed up. If the AI is a fighter bomber, it will only jettison it's weapons if it is directly shot at, and never anticipates it by jettisoning and turning to fight before the merge. If these AI FB's are escorted and don't need to jettison, they keep trundling along at cruise speed rather than speeding up and making themselves difficult targets.

I realize this is immensely difficult to code, but it is something to think about. The only sim I have seen that does this convincingly is Battle of Britain II, which uses a system that tracks how much of a disadvantage the AI finds itself in (i.e. friendly:enemy ratio and losses), and at a randomized tipping point makes the loosing side try it's best to get the hell out of dodge. It also uses an AI field-of-view routine so you can bounce an enemy from behind or below, and also let's the AI sometimes loose track of the player if he hugs the deck, just as the human player can loose track of the AI. Often, a dogfight was described by pilots as intense and then suddenly they're alone in the sky. This is doesn't happen too much in Il2, and the AI knows exactly where anything within a fixed radius is and then proceeds to fight to the death.

Of course, if the fight happens at a very small scale, like 2v2 or 4v4, the percentage losses might be expected to be higher, and there are many variations and exceptions. While the AI in Il-2 is better than most, and cert's AI mod was a quantum leap, as is the version in DBW, it would be absolutely fantastic if it were possible to implement a desire to return successfully to base. I'm just trying to point out issues that the outstanding modders here might be able to address.

thanks
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Murray

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Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2011, 11:42:12 AM »

It's worst when the AI generates these random "Aces" that have superhuman ability to HO and then will latch on and follow you around to the ends of the earth, never running out of gas and never giving up. You can get engaged in 10 fights and disengage from more and the "Ace" will continue to follow you. I started the late war 262 DGEN campaign and had this Yak3 that literally followed me for 45 minutes with his wingman. The only thing I could do was run away. They were orbiting 5000m above me always and if I got near they dove down. If I manuvered they had the upper hand (yak3s vs 262). So I ran, and shot down 12 IL2s while avoiding the yak3s. I finally got tired of it and somehow after much effort managed to get a HO into the "Ace" AI and shot him down. After that his non-Ace wingman promptly bugged out for home. Took my last rounds, as well, so it's a good thing.

I really hate games where the AI cheats. Especially where the AI cheats to punish the players (as compared to other AI) and hunt the player's plane down specifically. This isn't the first gave I have experienced this, and I just hate it on the principle of the matter.

Any AI mods that change that would be welcome in my book, but I do not know how hard any of that is to code so I'll just post my opinions and leave them out there for any others to use (or not...) how they like.
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Slikk

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Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2011, 12:37:17 PM »

 
I really hate games where the AI cheats. Especially where the AI cheats to punish the players (as compared to other AI) and hunt the player's plane down specifically. This isn't the first gave I have experienced this, and I just hate it on the principle of the matter.

Any AI mods that change that would be welcome in my book, but I do not know how hard any of that is to code so I'll just post my opinions and leave them out there for any others to use (or not...) how they like.

@ Murray

You don’t need a mod, you can fix this yourself. Bandits that hunt specifically for the player can be fixed in the FMB. All you have to do is open the mission in the FMB, then find the enemy flight that’s attached to the player aircraft and unattach it.  ;)
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Stratodog

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Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
« Reply #59 on: July 21, 2011, 12:17:56 PM »

Another thing that can be done in the FMB to get AI aircraft to bug out and go home is to decrease their fuel.  It takes a little experimentation to get the right fuel load so that they will fight for 5-10 minutes and then head for base, but it can be done. 
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