Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Herra Tohtori]

Pablo,

Is it really possible to let a 3D TV/Monitor to identify a "flickering" 2D video source as a 3D source where left/right images alternate? With the amount of customization you've built into the mod - you wouldn't really NEED to have an universal way of telling the television which frame is right-eye and which one is left.

You can just test and let the TV guess - and if it guesses wrong, simply change the position of eyes by flipping the eye separation value to negative... if it's possible to get the television to realize that it should use this alternating video stream as a 3D video source rather than 2D, then I think the problems is already more than half solved... maybe. I don't know enough to say if my intuition is worth anything, to be honest.

Interlacing would require a new way of compositing two full colour images, but take the odd numbered lines from first image and even numbered lines from second image; arithmetically it should be reasonably simple, but code-wise I have no idea if the existing code even has any suitable framework for manipulations like that. Although, if there's already a way to composite channels from separate images into one, then interlaced compositing should also be possible. If that would enable 3D on TV sets that automatically recognize interlaced 3D sources, it would obviously be pretty cool.

However, flicker-based stream transmission would be superior because it would retain full vertical resolution and image quality.

Also something to consider: If it were possible to do side-by-side 3D, then IL-2 1946 would essentially be compatible with Oculus Rift (there already are mods to adjust the field of view wider than the stock game allows).

And that, I think, would be pretty darn awesome...

[PhoenixOrion]

If it is sent to the tv interlaced on a polarized tv it doens't need to know left or right. You just put on the glasses and it works. I have a 6950 and use tridef on many games. Interlaced works the best because you get the best quality and frame rates with it. It works better than side by side and the others. I don't know what bentitomuso meant by an$800 dollar card for 3d games. I have a 6950 and it works fine for real 3d games and not virtualized 3d. Which I have seen that option for games one is virtual 3d and not as good quality 3d but faster and the other is real 3d processing true 3d imaging. I play portal in 3d ,crysis and hitman in true 3d at 1080p I get 30fps. If it was 720p I would get 60fps with tridef driver which I was using with IL-2 but for some reason can no longer get to work. Tridef does not natively support IL-2 because it is opengl it works with directx 9 and up and IL-2 can if in directx mode only do directx 8. I was using GLDirect .dll to translate IL-2 form OpenGL to Directx9.

[Herra Tohtori]

Well you do need to get the order of interlacing right. Other than that, I know what you're saying - interlaced stream sends full FPS stream but halves the vertical resolution for each eye, so you do lose some quality of the image, no matter what de-interlacing schemes you use to try and restore the lost information.

The advantage to this is that you don't need super high frame rate to get flicker-free image.

Flickering stream sends the individual streams as alternating, full resolution images, so you don't lose any frame quality but you essentially get half the frame rate for each individual eye. That means you need at least 100 Hz VSync rate - ideally 120 Hz or better to experience equally smooth video as regular 2D.

The technology of image separation also affects things. The most common ones are active 3d shutter glasses and passive 3D circular polarized glasses. Flickering 3D could work with both just as well, as long as the shutter glasses are synced to the actual real-time frame rate and not just the highest VSync of the monitor. Polarized glasses are in many ways a simpler solution, but they add a few optical complications...

[santobr]

In my 3D TV, it doesn't work like that.
When the TV recognizes a 3D signal, it automatic changes the FPS to 24FPS because of the HDMI limit (it is a cheaper 3D TV).
This mean that the TV is expecting 58FPS or less.
It doesn't matter how much frames the source will transmit to the TV, just like in 2D, the image is repeated by the buffers until the GPU generates the next pair of images.
The effect is very very good, I can play ARMA2, Alien vs Predator, S.T.A.L.K.E.R series, RO2, Men of War, Rise of Flight.

My system is not the best, I have a good card HD6950 but a cheaper CPU and 4GB of RAM.
Just like when I play 2D games, in some heavy scenes the FPS drops, but the image remains perfect, never changes, it never lost the synchronism.

If it works with nVidia, I think it is a matter of detail to enable the quad-buffers for ATI in OpenGL mode.



santobr.

[PhoenixOrion]

In my 3D TV, it doesn't work like that.
When the TV recognizes a 3D signal, it automatic changes the FPS to 24FPS because of the HDMI limit (it is a cheaper 3D TV).
This mean that the TV is expecting 58FPS or less.
It doesn't matter how much frames the source will transmit to the TV, just like in 2D, the image is repeated by the buffers until the GPU generates the next pair of images.
The effect is very very good, I can play ARMA2, Alien vs Predator, S.T.A.L.K.E.R series, RO2, Men of War, Rise of Flight.

My system is not the best, I have a good card HD6950 but a cheaper CPU and 4GB of RAM.
Just like when I play 2D games, in some heavy scenes the FPS drops, but the image remains perfect, never changes, it never lost the synchronism.

If it works with nVidia, I think it is a matter of detail to enable the quad-buffers for ATI in OpenGL mode.



santobr.

Is your tv the kind where you have shutter glasses? Becuase it shouldn't matter if it is interlace 3d video. Tv see's it as 2d signal I believe. So you must have the shutter glasses type.

Have you tried the interlaced option with Tridef on computer plugged into tv? On mine if it is half by half or side by side it will do what you are saying on mine as well. That's why I don't use it because 24 frames per second doesn't cut it when it is half resolution per eye as well with polarized. Shutter glasses cut the frame rates in half per eye but full resolution. A shutter glass game as of current technology can get up to 30 fps per eye I believe nvidia at least. I think it is the same for Ati with polarized as well. If I remember right the highest I can get with a game was either 60fps or 30fps. But I think it was 30 at 1080p.

[PhoenixOrion]

I've got the mod working but I can't figure out how to get the mouse to work normally with external views. Makes looking around in the middle of a fight impossible in externals while being chased. I thought I turned off all that stuff in the config read all posts about config settings. The 3d and minimap work. But I don't have that menu that is shown in the pictures. Tried it with tracknoIr but has difficulty tracking my movements with the 3d glasses on. Time to start saving for a real trackIR I guess. I am on 4.12.2 and HSFX 7. These are my config settings relating to your mods yours are all I'm using right now. The 3d is quite impressive for red and blue glasses.

Code: [Select]

[Mods]
SpeedbarSpdKMH=1
SpeedbarSpdMPH=1
SpeedbarSpdKnots=1
SpeedbarAltMeters=1
SpeedbarAltFeet=5
SpeedbarTAS=1
BombSightAssist=3
BombSightAssistConf=3
MixedSpeedbar=1
FullSpeedbar=1
PALMODsColor=1
ShowSIToo=1
PAL3DFollowInertia=0
PAL3DFollowInertiaAngle=0
PAL3DCockpitSoftView=0.075
PAL3DFollowInertia=0
PAL3DCockpitTurretInertia=0
PAL3DExternalTrackIR=0
PAL3DStart=1
PAL3D6DOF=0
PAL3DMouse6DOF=1
PAL3D6DOFAutoReset=0
PAL3DEcranWide=0
PAL3DSeparation=1.2
PAL3DSeparationExt=19.5
PAL3DConvLeft=-2
PAL3DConvRight=-2
PAL3DScrShtDir=MyScreenShots/
PAL3DScrShtExt=jpg
PALGameMenuStatusBar=1
PALGameMenuShowFPS=0
PAL3DSepAim=0.7
PAL3DSepGun=1.35
PAL3DSepPit=1.2
PAL3DConvAimL=-0.05
PAL3DConvAimR=-0.05
PAL3DConvGunL=-0.09
PAL3DConvGunR=-0.09
PAL3DConvPitL=-0.13
PAL3DConvPitR=-0.13
PAL3DConvExtL=-0.55
PAL3DConvExtR=-0.55
PAL3DSepExt=25.0

[santobr]

Mine is a polarized 3D system, I use polarized passive glasses.
The LCD panel is interlaced, but the problem is that I have an ATI card, and the mode C doesn't recognize the available quad-buffer.
The kind of monitor or the kind of system you use as monitor for you doesn't matter for ATI cards, they are intended to function with most of systems available in the market.
But we can trick the 3D TV with a interlaced image, for sure, the advantage of making this way is that the FPS will be the same as a 2D image, but the disadvantage will be the performance because in quad-buffer mode the 3D effect is made by hardware.



santobr.

[Herra Tohtori]

PhoenixOrion, try values

PAL3DFollowInertia=0.1
PAL3DFollowInertiaAngle=0.1

Basically, the way it's set up, seems to be that values approaching 0 have the "full" inertia and values approaching 1 have reduced inertia. But higher values don't seem to work properly, causing a lot of camera flicker - even values 0.5 caused a lot of unwanted behaviour.

Default value being 0.01, if you put the values to 0.1 you get about 1/10th of the inertia (assuming some kind of linear scale, could be logarithmic or exponential as well...). It's there, but not distracting in fast in-game camera movements.

I like the inertia very much, but default values feel just a bit too high (or low) for gameplay. They're just about perfect for making videos, though, so I will probably experiment with different values and adjust them according to whether I'm recording video or actually flying. At the moment, I've settled to values 0.03 for both Inertia and InertiaAngle.

[PhoenixOrion]

PhoenixOrion, try values

PAL3DFollowInertia=0.1
PAL3DFollowInertiaAngle=0.1

Basically, the way it's set up, seems to be that values approaching 0 have the "full" inertia and values approaching 1 have reduced inertia. But higher values don't seem to work properly, causing a lot of camera flicker - even values 0.5 caused a lot of unwanted behaviour.

Default value being 0.01, if you put the values to 0.1 you get about 1/10th of the inertia (assuming some kind of linear scale, could be logarithmic or exponential as well...). It's there, but not distracting in fast in-game camera movements.

I like the inertia very much, but default values feel just a bit too high (or low) for gameplay. They're just about perfect for making videos, though, so I will probably experiment with different values and adjust them according to whether I'm recording video or actually flying. At the moment, I've settled to values 0.03 for both Inertia and InertiaAngle.

So do you get that menu in the game because I don't have that menu. In the posts it says the tab button will activate the menu but I don't have any menu.

[benitomuso]

Phoenix,
                     don't be so anxious and read just once but in depth. Look at this post:

https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,37311.msg415246.html#msg415246

  It explains that now a specific setting in MISC Controls appears. It is called GameMenu and gives to all of us the chance of selecting a specific key to deploy the menú.

  Regards,
                         Pablo

[hello]

Hi there Pablo,
I just thought I'd let you know this mod works without any problems on my laptop!
I've been nagging about it not working and not being able to help or do much about it but now, in its latest incarnation it works flawlessly. Hurray!

Just for the record, two things have changed since last time I tried:
1) Your new version of course.
2) I upgraded from windows 8 to windows 8.1.

As a matter of fact, I read on the ms developers support site that some things changed in the windows deals with GPU switching, so that might well have solved the issue. I cannot say for sure.

Anyway, a big THANK YOU! for continuing to improve the IL-2 experience.

[PhoenixOrion]

Phoenix,
                     don't be so anxious and read just once but in depth. Look at this post:

https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,37311.msg415246.html#msg415246

  It explains that now a specific setting in MISC Controls appears. It is called GameMenu and gives to all of us the chance of selecting a specific key to deploy the menú.

  Regards,
                         Pablo

OK thank you thought I looked over everything.