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[Zachary_Braun]

Hello,

I have been wondering about the possibility of using certain aspects of Il-2 to tell better stories. I thought that these might be possible if it weren't too deeply coded into the game:

1.
When a mission objective is completed, some mission-specific text is displayed somewhere on the screen, like at the top of the screen where the radio communications are. The game would have to grab this from an external file, some kind of *.missionmessages file. This would be useful for surprise mission updates that herald a change in the direction of a mission, or giving campaign developments more depth as they occur in game time. For example, an important person begins to flee an attacked airbase in an experimental aircraft and must be shot down.

It's apparent that IL-2 tracks which objectives have been completed... it would have to, in order for campaigns to work properly. Does it assign some kind of ID to objectives in order to tell them apart? If this is true, the ID could be linked to the message the designer would like to show.

2.
Branching campaign paths based on mission success or failure. I brought this up over on Mission4Today when I saw a person had made a campaign with branching paths (http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=4205), but it ended up being a series of manually-chosen missions. If IL-2 could take its way of parsing which objectives have or haven't been met, and then cross-reference that information with the campaign's campaign.ini file, it might be possible to have certain missions be activated or deactivated as the campaign goes on. This would add more depth to stories beyond the two current options: a linear storyline, or a storyline with some randomized elements.

Cordially,
Zack

[Typhoon Ib]

Triggers?

[Batbomb]

Nah... I think he means some kind of narrative element...
like when you bomb an airbase a message would pop up: "now you have destroyed the major airbase xyz that plays a keyrole in the tactical situation off..."
or: "Watch out! A surprise attack by MiG-17's! Now it becomes a battle for life and death!"

Triggers would also be cool though... wasn't DT developing that at some point?

[Typhoon Ib]

bomb+runway= trigger spawn event for fighters nearby (X,Y,Z, Speed, Vector, Loadout, AI level...)

or just instead of spawning planes, just spawn some text on the screen or put some in the debriefing...

still gonna need a trigger of some sort?

==================
for the dynamic element, closest we ever got was DCG...

[tomoose]

Check out Lonestar's campaign building guide.  There is a file called "timetable.dcg" in which you can create scripted events to occur at a certain point in your campaign.  It also allows you to customize text in the pre-flight window (although you could adjust the text after the mission is created via the .properties file and notepad).
It's a little involved in setting up but with practice........???
Lonestar hangs out here once in awhile so he might be kind enough to assist if you ask nicely!! 

[WindWpn]

Yes, dcg is your answer.   Consequence campaigning.

[Zachary_Braun]

Hi everyone,

Thank you for your replies.

"timetable.cfg" sounds interesting. But these ideas are not for a dynamic campaign like DCG, but a "static" campaign that would actually not be quite as static as before. The text mod would go hand-in-hand with branching campaigns... for example:

1. In every mission, the player has a wingman. A hidden escort objective is tied to the wingman in every mission.
2. If the wingman is ever shot down, the hidden objective fails. This triggers the text mod and the player character is aghast that his buddy has been shot down.
3. If IL-2 truly keeps track of which objectives have succeeded or failed, then it would be able to know that the wingman were shot down. The branching paths mod would then take that information and use it to open up a few new paths, like ferrying the deceased's fianceé out of the warzone, or even fly for revenge.

Come to think of it, such a system even gives the player the option of branching a path by choice.

IL-2 also keeps track of mission objectives in order to handle the player's score, so that might be a place to start searching for classes to modify.

I have tried to find instructions to use "timetable.cfg" by using Google, but I couldn't find them... has Lonestar placed this info somewhere special? I think I need more search keywords.

--------

Ah, disregard the above, I thought it was ".cfg" and not ".dcg". I found it easily after I realized that. Although, this isn't a mod request for dynamic campaigns.

Regards,
Zachary

[DarkBlueBoy]

Hi Zachary,

A great post with some great ideas. I have always been interested in using IL-2 for telling better stories, almost stepping towards console or movie style narratives which underpin an on-going campaign. I am pretty sure that branching can be used on static campaigns, whereby if a mission fails then an alternative next mission occurs. This could become highly complex, but would certainly add to a sense of a "moving storyline".

As an wanna be writer with an interest in aviation and gaming, for me some of the best IL-2 campaigns are those which do have a story to tell and are not just case of "inbound bombers, scramble!" for example.

I do also think that some of what you are wanting to acheive could be done so by imaginative story telling from within the mission descriptions and use of .ntrk files for setting scenes.

Just a thought and not sure how plausible this could be, but how about if a bespoke series of objects were awarded instead of medals for each part of the story, say a graphic of a letter, or a picture of the fiance after you succesfully delivered her out of thew warzone? :-) You allude to plotlines, do you have a story as such?

I believe that IL-2 has plenty of life in it where this is concerned and would be greatly interested to help if I could!

[Zachary_Braun]

Hi DarkBlueBoy,

Chameleon257 (The author of the campaign I gave as an example in the first message of this topic) and I exchanged words about it over on mission4today. He agrees, saying that the ability for campaigns to branch based on failed or completed objectives would put the sim over the top.

Although it is first and foremost a combat simulator, it does seem like a nice idea, doesn't it? I'd read a topic here in which many proferred their love for dynamic campaigns over static campaigns, because with static campaigns, there's only ever one way to win them (occasionally with some randomization). Tying entirely different missions to events that happen due to the player's actions (or lack thereof) seems like a natural way to invigorate static campaigns... they wouldn't be able to be called "static" any longer. 

I'd seen that triggers were being worked on at one point in the sim's history, but that project apparently foundered. If it were too difficult to implement, I thought tying messages or branching paths to objectives might be easier, instead of complicated "if...then" structures that had to be constantly checked while the game were running. I don't have any knowledge of java, but I do have some coding experience in things like PHP and some rudimentary skill with object-oriented programming (using classes), so I know that some seemingly simple things might be difficult to implement if they are not so simple under the hood. If the "objectives" structure is too deep in the code, it might not be possible to reach for anyone save Team Diadolos.

As for my personal example above, it's just that, an example. Although the possibility for different narratives are endless.

[DarkBlueBoy]

Hey Zachary,

I agree it could become complicated as you would still need to create a campaign that made sense and ran with some sense of order depending on objectives met or failed. Not to say that on a small scale it could work though. One thing I have learned about the wonders of SAS is "never say never"!

I wish I had more time to dedicate to all things IL-2 related. My head is crammed full of ideas for campaigns! I think that maybe we step back on this and look at your original question... story telling. Creating a developing story line that runs through a campaign would (for me) help with the immersive element. I think also making the missions intersting is key. Having perhaps the story or drama unfold with a few twists and turns drawing the player in by use of that good old fashioned device - language.

I personally think that at the stage the game is opened up to have a player controlled figure then the leap forward in terms of narrative would be huge. Imagine those possibilities...

[Zachary_Braun]

Hello again,

After some composition, I've prepared a small presentation. I wonder if the additions to the GUI in the Full Mission Builder are possible, but that might be able to be replaced by campaign files.

If this idea doesn't receive any action, I'll try suggesting it over on the official Team Daidalos forum at 1C. As amazing a mod this would be, it would be even more amazing included with the stock game!



As far as I know, it's not possible to assign a Recon Target to a moving object, or to give it a "Sleep" value, so that was more wishful thinking. Currently, Recon Targets can only be stationary "hotspots", activating something when the player comes inside the range of the Recon circle.

Because the campaign path is no longer determined by fulfilling the Primary target, I thought that "Primary", "Secondary", and "Hidden" could be a form of priority which determines which fulfilled condition branches the next path.

Cordially,
Zachary

[mexchiwa]

Some good ideas here...

I've been thinking of doing a branching campaign the ghetto way.  It'll be a static campaign, and at every branch point I'll just end the current campaign and have the player choose one of two or three new ones...