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[Typhoon Ib]

and later they said they announced it earlier, and we should not be so surprised.

announced it earlier - like 14 days.
and one yank who is in a position asked the community and got a very loud and quite clear "HELL NO" - but the dice had already been played in Moskow.

...the unlocks are to enable the 12$ version for the poor Russians. Russians should play russian games, about the strength of russia.
The bullshat that goes on behind the scenes is the worst i have ever encountered. BoS is dripping with Politics.

[shoresroad]

I think IL-2 has future 
post edited - please do not quote pictures!

Oh yeah! 

[shoresroad]

What the IL-2 modding community archieved since 2008 is truly amazing.
I'm still playing IL-2 1946 because of the mod maps with photorealistic textures, the new AI and other features, amazing selection of missions, skins, planes, objects and because I can change almost everything in it.

Yep, IL-2 1946 is still the best WWII flight Sim by far.  And maybe untouchable by a single company at this point when you consider the contributing work force is a world community juggernaut.

I think Arma has come the closest to a recent business model that is profitable and engages the community juggernaut at the same time.  I don't think 1CGS gets this concept well at all.  The direction BoS has taken leaves the playing field wide open for continued development of 1946 and hopefully renewed interest in DCS WWII by ED.

And then there's Team Fusion's new CloD project.  If BoS doesn't get mainstream real fast it will quickly become a forgotten oddity.  "Wow, it looks cool" never has staying power.

[SAS~Poltava]

I wonder - and this is more a question than a statement - that perhaps Il-2 1946 will never be surpassed when it comes to content? 

As the state of the art progresses, not least graphically, new aircraft, vehicles, landscapes etc will require more and more time and expertise to put together, meaning that the effort that gave, say, ten new aircraft in 1946 will maybe only give one in BoS (albeit a very, very nice one). And eventually, when modded BoS has reached, say, 50 aircraft, as compared to modded IL-2's 1500+ (YES!), technology has progressed and it's time for a new game and graphics engine, and that one will require even MORE effort per item. Meaning that content will shrink as the games gets progressively more advanced, and not least good-looking?

As I said, more a question than a statement.

[SkyHigh]

As an exclusively off-line player, I believe that game-play must not be underestimated in relation to graphics or even physical complexity. To me, the most important simulation is the challenge offered at the height of combat. At that point, AI, sound, communications and peripheral vision perhaps surpass the undeniable importance of graphics. On this basis, combined with its customisability and unmatchable variety, as Poltava has illustrated, Il-2 1946 will be a major player for quite some time.

[Typhoon Ib]

the graphics is what drew me into BoS. i was something that drive me away from IL-2 initially. because, il-2 always was an ugly duck compared to others, even Fs2002/2004...
and all along, i always saw the poly's,. the edges, the silly alpha channel techniques.


on the plus side, Il-2 had content, had complexity that noone else could offer.
all along, it had a better flight feeling than CFS3, no matter the "mood swings" of the devteam.
il-2 took me round the world, took me on a WWII combat tour, from brake-less biplanes to the most advanced jets of its time.
From Mountain top strips in Slovakia to big air force bases in berlin, carriers, it took you everywhere.
even I-16 races in the canyons of the small dogfight maps.
from Fighters, Bombers, ground attack , recce, transport and liaison, special ops and artillery spotting... it offered everything.
It had the most ugly Planes (R-10?) and the most beautiful (G2/G4, MC205?).

===========================================================================

Today, the Pluses of Il-2 can no longer outweigh its negatives of flying on rails, of lack of graphics, lack of immersion in an environment.
what i did in my last year of Il-2 was just buzzing round the globe, an hour here, an hour there. not caring for anything, because i didnt know what to focus on.
carrier traps? done.
Jabo? done.
BoB? naaah.
Western front? seen it.
eastern front? seen it.
FMB? done
skins? done.

BoS has me re-focussing on a particular subject, and that subject comes with an entirely new set of challenges, both inflight, as well as game design.
The inflight challenges are welcome as they are massive indeed, the game design changes are... Not.
Immersion inflight is in an other League, on a level that that only Test drive unlimited managed to give me.

immersion, tough flying environment, difficult combating, and a very specific set of enemy planes that are deadly as hell to an almost exclusive LaGG driver.

That's why it's still on my HDD, even tho it sees less action time than it deserves. An hour of MP an evening, hanging about the Forums.
the delay of the tools and the design choices causes much grief and, combined, might cut off its future.
BoS might become the second CloD - i am aware of that.

doesnt mean it sucks, or that CloD sucks.

===========================================

agreed!

only so many man-hours available.
complexity up = man hours per content  element up, exponentially
complexity down = man hours per content element down

that's why at one point we had like 50 variants of the 109, and for UP3 they were mowed down.

as complexity grows, content shrinks drastically.
but then again more people are gamers and game buyers today than in 1985...

[vpmedia]

Today, the Pluses of Il-2 can no longer outweigh its negatives of flying on rails, of lack of graphics, lack of immersion in an environment.

Not for me

Imho if you take the time to install all the available graphics mods, IL-2 1946 is still a strong competitor.
Also if you invest time into building your own mission templates then IL-2 is more immersive than any other sim. Show me another game where you can put a 1000 ground targets and 50-100 planes on a map and still get good fps. Definitely not in BOS or CoD.

[Typhoon Ib]

agreed.
in 2010 i had a selfmade Normandy DCG campaign (redesigned network, 3 airfields on the small island) and constantly had 60-120 planes in the air  - per side.

Objects? Way more than 1000. More like 1000 Objects on the small island alone. and then asheshouses landing vehiecles, Katyushas bombarding the short, the Southampton class cruisers wreaking havoc from a distance...

CPU was heating up like hell, but the Fps were 30+. Except just above the beachhead, where the effects and the underlying code brought FPS to  around 20.
totally agreed.
Will BoS ever be able to do that?
hehe. today i will say: NNNnNNnNNnnnNNNNnnNNNNNnope. and i do that with an evil Grin.


Next i compare the flying experience in the LaGG
In 46 the damn thing is a precise and steady as a kung fu master in a training fight, and even if you force it on its bad side, i am much more confident in bringing her back to normal flight than in BoS.
therefor , flying in 46 gives me the impression of flying in FSX.

Il-2's (at the time) complex Flying experience was what once brought me to Il-2, because in CFS3, i could do neverending loops with Spitfires, like an Extra300 Aerobatic Plane can.
I remember the P-40E FM. DAMN did that suck. Took me an hour to take off.
And CEM, how i loved it as soon as i left the arcade levels behind...
Il-2 is a big step up from what i started out with - yet now i feel better options are available.
That flying experience, is, to me, a key element - both to immerse into the game and the persons back then, and to master the Flying brick i sit in.




But i must disagree on the Graphics part.
The Sky, the Ground... they can not cut it any more.
Straight Roads. Gridlike elevation Model with low resolution. BoS's Selfshadowing. Humps and Bumps and reflections and whatnot.

When i see the Cockpit frame for the B-25 done in alpha channel trickery... NO. Not cool! Not cool at all! Hated that from day one.
such things were a step back from the concurrence, and were done to "save resources"

The modeling techniques and the modeling limitations in IL-2, the refusal from the Devteam, and even TD to accept nice Models into the game.. No.
where was that discussion... some torpedo got its wooden fins redone from polygone to alpha channel trickery to save 50 polys. No. Sorry.
Stock 1946 does not display its content in an appropriate way. never did - transitioning from a modded CFS3 to a stock Il-2 FB was a Bitter Pill.
Not even the late birds a la Tempest get get a nice model. Not for 2014, not for a guy like me who likes to spend time and take a close look.
and its in part down to the (*****) modeling limitations.

In part you are right!
The tanks and Locomotives and Ships have been pushed by the Modders. the vehiecles  are , in part, even better in 1946. I think of the Tiger Tank with the camo net. The russian Locomotive with the working lights.
The Redone Mig-3 can hold up graphics-wise. S3's Hornet is a joy to look at.
In many Areas the Modders took the pain of the sharp edges away. Japancat's 109 was what saved that plane for me for a few years.
the smoothed cowlings and spinners are good, but not enough. Il-2 1946 needs twenty Pa_jeronimo's, it needs a japancat(externals) and a claymore(cockpit) for every Plane.
It needed them back in 2006, when the hardware could finally handle more. And the Devteam should have gotten over the official polygon limits, thrown them overboard at some point in the Il-2 history.

Good. Pretty damn frickin awesome Jawdropping progress compared to the stock game.
But not as nice, smooth, accurate, detailed, shiney, Bumpmappey as i like it.

[SkyHigh]

Well, maybe my eyes are not as good as they used to be, but I wouldn't see an alpha-channel if it jumped up and bit me! I think modded Il-2 looks great. A dogfight in a Jeronimo-cockpitted MiG over a Cyberolas Stalingrad doesn't look that far behind BoS for me and I know the 4.12 opposing AI is going to be evil.

As for flight models and their difficulty, I will never forget many years ago reading a post on a WWII Fighters forum from a US WWII fighter veteran (it is likely a case of God rest him now), asserting that the FMs in "simulators" were far more difficult than the reality and that if the latter had been as difficult as the former most of the protagonists would have spun to their doom under combat conditions. I myself am totally ignorant-I know absolute zero about flying planes and don't even feel comfortable about heights.

[LuseKofte]

If you choose the planes carefully in IL2 you can't a great deal of feel to it. I have no problem what so ever to give myself away into a offline role-play .
Infact I am more tired of cod online than I have ever been on IL2

[SkyHigh]

If you choose the planes carefully in IL2 you can't a great deal of feel to it. I have no problem what so ever to give myself away into a offline role-play .
Infact I am more tired of cod online than I have ever been on IL2

Leone, may I ask your plane recommendations for '46? There are so many and I would respect your experience considerably,

[Knochenlutscher]

I'm still at some point with István, let us see what BOS and triple 7 crew has in the bag for us,
it's early to say this and that. TF came out pretty good for CloD, right enough to cure
a thing a two, but allover feel is better than before, even if subtler than 1946.
But that I keep tracking as a different franchise, as for CloD and BOS, they might bore
IL-2 Sturmovik, but that deserves the original. Better see CloD and BOS seperated,
so they have a chance as independent products.
Modding relies of the abillity and will of Devs, since 1946 things changed, ROF forum to me is the
same attitude as Bananaforum, I only visit it when buying a new plane. Don't have the need
to settle up there, it could grow depression.