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[daHeld]

Hi here.
First of all, thanks for this MOD. I like it quite a lot 

I'm experiencing somewhat of a problem. Whenever I accelerate time - doesn't matter if I increase it to x2, x4 or x8 (x8 is the worst, though) - I get a huge framerate drop to 7 or 8 frames, sometimes to only 2 or 3 fps.
Is this normal? I don't remember experiencing something similar in older versions of the game...

And the all-around framerate isn't great either, most of the time I get only 40 or so fps (with only 15-20 on the ground) at a resolution of 1680x1050.
For comparison: In Cliffs I get the exact same framerate with a resolution of 1920x1200. and in DCS I get around 60 fps in the resolution 1946 is running at.

How is this possible for such an old sim? I mean, graphics are way better in these sims and I still get a better framerate?
Could somebody please explain to me? Thank you very much in advance.

By the way I added the WepEffect=0 line to my conf.ini, but it didn't change much.

The framerate is affected by the number of planes in a mission, of course, but it seems to be affected even by the planes that should not be rendered at all because they are BVR... So it seems to be more of a CPU issue here, am I right?

My computer specs are:
AMD FX-8320 on Gigabyte GA-970A-DS3P
with an AMD Radeon HD 7870 @1100Mhz

All the best,
Andy

[decipher]

hey there,

i have noticed the same thing lately, it was not happening to me when i started using CUP, but somewhere around the last 2 weeks (my general framerates got slightly lower and more stuttery + extreme low FPS with time acceleration like you described). now i don't know exactly what causes this, but a (temporary) fix i found working for me is to reduce the air.ini file as discussed in this topic : https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,45993.0.html

in short: at the moment i only fly in the pacific, so i made a backup of my air.ini and removed all german and soviet planes (+plus basically everything what i dont intend to fly or fly against anytime soon). the result for me: 15-20 frames BACK, stutterfree, and at x8 time acceleration my framerate went from 7FPS to 45 FPS...

there is definitely something going on behind the scenes in the il-2 engine that does not produce visible errors, but affects the framerates heavily.

hope this might help you too!

s!

[SAS~Monty27]

Because Il2 has been around a lot longer than the newer sims, and covers vastly more territory and content, we have to talk specifics.  What I mean is: we have to report the exact circumstances in order to find the pattern.  Mission source, for example;  its so easy to actually post the mission here, rather than leave us all guessing.

Currently there is a large effort underway to convert old and build new campaigns and mission sets.  QMBPRO missions are also being upgraded and have come a long way.

Meanwhile there is a lot of new stuff, knocking about alongside a lot of old stuff...

So what are we talking about?  A mission?  QMB?  FMB?  DGen?  DCG?

Clearly some object, some element, induces a performance hit under certain circumstances.
 
However, not all circumstances and not everywhere.  Is it from the use of some old code, or is it a new thing?  In order to begin an effective search we have to start looking in the right place.

Il2, in its highly modified format, has a far wider scope than the tiny focus of the specialised area sims.  In order to replicate an issue and find the culprit we have to be specific.  When we get specific we can find common elements and then, only then, can we address a solution.

[nzmigman]

I too have noticed similar. In my case I think its due to upgrading my graphics hardware.
https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,46512.0.html


The mission I used is here
http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads3&file=details&id=99

[Chupacabras84]

So what are we talking about?  A mission?  QMB?  FMB?  DGen?  DCG?
Clearly some object, some element, induces a performance hit under certain circumstances.
However, not all circumstances and not everywhere.

I noticed halved performance across the board, regardless of number of planes/vehicles, mission or setting.
Thats how I described it as well, I made a test, I set 10 cameras across Berlin in FMB (no planes or vehicles, just cameras) and ctrl+f2 trough them noting fps.
Since every camera is always in the same place and always pointing in the same direction, I managed to get very accurate readings which displayed consistent fps every time, allowing me to notice changes in the framerate as small as 1.fps.

Here is fps I noted in Berlin by jumping trough cameras in WaW+(Water=2), SAS+(no mods+water=2), SAS + (no mods+water=0).
Every line is the same scene displayed in WaW and SAS.

Example of how such comparison looks with pics so you can see how consistent it is.
waw      sas
18.fps    33.fps
19.fps    37.fps

waw sas sas+(water=0)
29   57   69
18   33   36
16   30   31
12   19   19
19   37   41
24   50   56
52   53   55
67   83   93
61   81   92
44   63   69

i made a backup of my air.ini and removed all german and soviet planes (+plus basically everything what i dont intend to fly or fly against anytime soon)

Save your time and just use lightened air.ini I posted, I tried to fit every aircraft that is relevant to particular era and that can fit, I made lots of tests on a very modest PC making sure that performance is exactly the same as in stock game.
Easy to use jsgme package and last.quick remover when you change era/theatre is a bonus.

[SAS~Monty27]

I too have noticed similar. In my case I think its due to upgrading my graphics hardware.
https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,46512.0.html


The mission I used is here
http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads3&file=details&id=99

GRAPHICS VS PERFORMANCE:
In this particular case the missions are good, for old 409 standards, but a little 'over-engineered'. This is because there are two ways you can go graphically, both with conf.in and your graphics card. Performance VS Quality.

With a 'Performance' setup, texture compression and minimum effects water etc, even a fairly ordinary machine could run these missions.  Once you ramp up the water, I like at least 3, turn up the effects, add some HD skins etc. then an ambitious mission like this, with over 60 aircraft involved, starts to slow things down.  These missions were made in 2008 and the reviews at M4T point to fps slow-downs even then.

Don't forget that since this was written in 409, years ago with low poly aircraft, hexagonal wheels and rough cowlings, we have raised the poly count across the board.  It looks so much better now but if our machines don't keep pace this is going to hurt.  The average 3do mesh for spinners and wheels is many times larger than previously.

I like a quality setup and big formations like this do present a bit of a tradeoff.  The higher end graphics settings and effects with Modded-Il2 do exact a tough price but I like to focus on the player aircraft and the immediate environment.

MISSION DESIGN:
The solution here is to consider your local situation.  What do you see as a pilot?  Your immediate surroundings and team-mates and the aircraft you are focussed on.  Much the same effect can be acheived here by simply removing a few flights of aircraft.  Go for a max of 45, rather than 65, and full performance is restored even on high settings.

On top of that we now have the CY6 features, designed for these kind of missions, that save waypoints and enhance performance.  I have added Box-flak over the target - Two Aimpoints over which the bombers release all ordnance, and DZ points to remove unwanted aircraft that would otherwise orbit senselessly with nowhere to land.

Try the difference:  There are still a lot of aircraft, it still feels and looks the same, but its a lot leaner and fitter even with high settings enabled.

************************

ATTACK THE 8th! by FlatSpinMan
Willi Jedermann, hero of the Luftwaffe Pilot series, returns in a one-off single mission.
Lead an attack against a realistic formation of USAAF B-17's.

One mission modified as 409 to 412 Conversion example/turorial.
https://www.mediafire.com/?hjbkvv3bn2ohf2l

[nzmigman]

Thank you very much!

Your new modified missions made quite a difference.
I like the idea of splitting the theaters up by breaking up the air.ini file..will give that a try I think
At least its not my hardware

[daHeld]

Well, thank you all for your answers!

@Monty: I didn't post a particular mission, because it happens every time in any campaign I play. There are only some differences in how much I am affected.
For example some of the worst missions I encountered so far are from the JG 5 Campaign of the Desastersoft addon "Der Eismeerjäger". It seems to me that scripted campaigns are affected the most, albeit the Fall Blau addon isn't as badly affected. Both of these campaigns use only stock planes, of course.
Boelke's Dynamic Campaigns work rather well in comparison for example.

The problem wit a reduced Air.ini for me is that I fly  campaigns right across the board (mostly official ones I paid for), from the Pacific to Russia to Normandy and back (on both sides, although I fly mostly German planes...) So I'm likely to encounter most of the planes that are there at one point or the other.

Isn't it very strange anyway that planes in a text file like the air.ini that aren't even in the mission can still affect that mission? To me that sounds like a huge bug...

I know it's a little hard to help me with this strange problem and am very grateful for you trying anyway.
And I'm almost happy that for once I'm not the only one having a particular problem...  (normally no one has ever heard of the problems I report  )

And while I have to admit that planes look better now, they can not compete with more modern sims with much higher poly counts in which I have no problems playing whatsoever - even the crappy WarThunder does it way better...    It's really a pitty because I like Il-2 very much - that old lady accompanied me since FB first came out  - damn I'm getting old   

Edit: Oh and by the way, when I play the same campaigns in HSFX, everything works as expected.  ???

[SAS~Monty27]

Well, thank you all for your answers!

@Monty: I didn't post a particular mission, because it happens every time in any campaign I play. There are only some differences in how much I am affected.
For example some of the worst missions I encountered so far are from the JG 5 Campaign of the Desastersoft addon "Der Eismeerjäger". It seems to me that scripted campaigns are affected the most, albeit the Fall Blau addon isn't as badly affected. Both of these campaigns use only stock planes, of course.
Boelke's Dynamic Campaigns work rather well in comparison for example.

The problem wit a reduced Air.ini for me is that I fly  campaigns right across the board (mostly official ones I paid for), from the Pacific to Russia to Normandy and back (on both sides, although I fly mostly German planes...) So I'm likely to encounter most of the planes that are there at one point or the other.

Isn't it very strange anyway that planes in a text file like the air.ini that aren't even in the mission can still affect that mission? To me that sounds like a huge bug...

I know it's a little hard to help me with this strange problem and am very grateful for you trying anyway.
And I'm almost happy that for once I'm not the only one having a particular problem...  (normally no one has ever heard of the problems I report  )

And while I have to admit that planes look better now, they can not compete with more modern sims with much higher poly counts in which I have no problems playing whatsoever - even the crappy WarThunder does it way better...    It's really a pitty because I like Il-2 very much - that old lady accompanied me since FB first came out  - damn I'm getting old   

Edit: Oh and by the way, when I play the same campaigns in HSFX, everything works as expected.  ???

Yes indeed!  eMeL and I were talking about this last night. - The glory days of European Air War with hundreds of aircraft present in huge dogfights and strategic raids.  It appeals to the 'film director' inside of us.  Even after landing, or crashing, we would watch the other aircraft make their way back home.

Earlier written missions worked well with older graphics and now the updated il2 often struggles with those huge performances.

However, Il2 does still deliver plenty of excitement and action for the pilot.  Il2's Me262s, FW190's or P-51s, Spits, Zeros, you name it; are a visceral experience.  One-on-one air combat, or even a couple of dozen, is still a swirling mayhem of speed and death.

The mission builder remains the best tool in any sim.  Long after the linear games have been played and done we can make new missions in Il2 and do them better than many modern sims in most cases.

So we do have put the 'epic movie' to one side in many cases.  In talking with so many air combat veterans over the years, from WWII (all dead now) to Korea, Vietnam, the Falklands, the Middle East. - Most combat flying is quite methodical, well planned and almost tedious - interspersed with periods of intense excitement and an unbelievable adrenalin high.

Dynamic Campaigns are getting better all the time and Azura's latest upgrades will be an integral part of CUP in the near future. 

I love the scripted campaign even more.  Just read the stories that Poltava writes so beautifully, of the painstaking research of Hamm66's Battle of Britain and Lancaster missions.  I have a few new ones coming too.  They feel personal, historic, and still relevant.

So yes we have to re-design/convert and make new missions, and we all know a bit more about why older missions often don't work so well any more.

On the other hand; I have re-visited European Air War and the like - At the time it was beautiful - Now I can't believe the hideous and primitive conditions we accepted!

Going forward - Many new sims still lack soul - I'm a sucker and try everything that's there.  But where is there a better mission builder tool than 412-FMB and variety? - Nothing comes close to what we have in CUP.

Il2 has its faults, its the most irritating thing there is at times.  It defies logic and pisses me off all the time with its weird ways and capricious habits. - Sorry, I appear to have started to talk about my wife, you know what I mean...
 

[decipher]

Isn't it very strange anyway that planes in a text file like the air.ini that aren't even in the mission can still affect that mission? To me that sounds like a huge bug...

i was thinking about that too since i started having problems that went away by reducing the air.ini.
my uneducated guess is that no matter if a plane is or is not used in a mission, the actual flight models (FM) of EVERY plane in the air.ini list is getting loaded into the il-2 program engine on startup and somehow the engine uses up cpu cycles (calculating something) for each and every FM in the background.

now my guess is, that this is due to the fact that the original developers of il-2 have not updated the core engine since their last release, so their engine is specifically tuned for the amount of planes they had at the time of this last release.
they did not plan to add more aircraft, maps, contect, etc, and if they would have released another update or add-on, they probably would have updated their core software engine too!

now with all the mods adding up on that old core... we are talking about hundreds of new planes? hundreds of new maps... thousands of new texture files and like... thousands and thousands of new classfiles (java code files) that have to run inside that old core...

now for me dreaming: in a perfect world the original owners of the il-2 1946 content would release the actual engine as open source to allow people to actually modernize the core, enabling il-2 1946 to make full use of modern directX, multi-core, RAM, 64bit.. etc... hey.. a guy can dream, right?

cheers.

[Chupacabras84]

The problem wit a reduced Air.ini for me is that I fly campaigns right across the board ... So I'm likely to encounter most of the planes that are there at one point or the other.

If those campaigns use stock planes (which often the case), you have there stock air.ini which pack all the stock aircraft so you shouldn't miss any.

Also, you have there USA & UK vs Axis, VVS vs Axis, if lets say you are playing German campaign, using those air.ini might be enough to get you trough campaign if there are non stock aircraft used, just enable air.ini you need for the upcoming mission (vvs vs Axis if it takes place in Moscow for example although it still might not cure all the problems) .

If your campaigns have some additional planes you are missing, you can just open <your campaign>.MIS and search for "Class air." copy plane that goes after (for example copy 'B_17F' from "Class air.B_17F") and Ctrl+F it in air.ini.
If its slashed out just delete slashes to enable it.

Later, if more campaigns are released, I think I could make an air.ini for particular campaign, I just checked and I think it might be a matter of minutes to do so.

[kingsley]

Il2 has its faults, its the most irritating thing there is at times.  It defies logic and pisses me off all the time with its weird ways and capricious habits. - Sorry, I appear to have started to talk about my wife, you know what I mean...

now for me dreaming: in a perfect world the original owners of the il-2 1946 content would release the actual engine as open source to allow people to actually modernize the core, enabling il-2 1946 to make full use of modern directX, multi-core, RAM, 64bit.. etc... hey.. a guy can dream, right?

Simon
If your wife reads this sentence I predict a short life for you.

Decipher
I have cracked the engine for il2 and bringing it up to speed. So far working good and a few hiccups but getting fixed