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Author Topic: Yugoslavia WIP  (Read 46540 times)

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Uzin

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Yugoslavia WIP
« on: October 17, 2015, 04:31:43 AM »

 On the picture below you can see that the maps of the area so released - - Zuti, Slovenia (green) and centrala Serbia from Avala (brown) do not cover  entire area of Yugoslavia. I am proposing  a project to make a map of the whole Yugoslavia area.. Since the desired scale of 1: 1 (1 pixel = 50 meters), it was necessary to divide the map in two - see the  purple line.




What is done:
Mymap_c.tga
map_H.tga
map_T.tga
ed_m01.tga
map opens in MapBuilder:



I am nterested in your opinion on this project.
Especially those which style textures to choose: the default one as on  Zuti_Sloveniya map who actually made it on the map Slovakia, or keep the style by Awale?
About zaselenioya population of the map - I think we can save a lot of memory without overloading map unnamed hamlets, like in a map of central Serbia.
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Radoye

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Re: Yugoslavia in two parts
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2015, 06:53:12 AM »

I'm not sure this would work for historical campaigns due to important areas of operation taking place on the edges of the map.

(By the way, i seem to remember there was a Croatia map WIP at one time, anyone knows what happened to that?)

There was a lot of interesting aerial combat taking place in the south, along the borders with Albania and Greece against the Italians, as well against Germans advancing from Bulgaria. So this would have to be somewhat expanded towards south. As early as 1940 the Italians "mistakenly" bombed Bitola on the Greek-Yugoslav border, and the Yugoslavs reciprocated in 1941 by successfully bombing a number of Italian targets in Albania.

Also, the withdrawing Yugoslav Government flew from Niksic in Montenegro on to Athens in Greece, and later on to Crete. So we definitely need a bit more on the map in the south-east.

In the north-east the map area is good, there have been Yugoslav bombing runs onto Szeged and Baja in Hungary and the main German airbase for attacking Belgrade was Arad in Romania.

The north-west however would need to be expanded to allow attacks on Klagenfurt and Graz in Austria (and vice versa, from there to targets in Slovenia and Croatia).

Also, the hydroplanes stationed at Kotor, Montenegro would need to be able to operate over the Dalmatian coast and islands.

Ditto for Sarajevo which finds itself on the border between the two maps, but was the main airbase covering central Yugoslavia, the so-called "Fortress Bosnia". Maybe an overlap so it is included on both east and west maps.

For Mostar, which was also one of the most important airbases and where the pilot academy used to be, there should be possible to fly from there to Belgrade (the Me 109 unit that defended Belgrade was transferred from Mostar shortly before the German attack).

Generally, for a semi-historical campaign centered on defending Belgrade one could follow a path like this:

- Training in Mostar, 1939 (biplanes, graduating from a trainer to a Hawker Fury)
- 1940 Mostar, transitioning to Me 109; first border incidents with Italians over Dalmatia (historically, a single G.50 was intercepted and shot down)
- transfer to Belgrade airbase for a scheduled overhaul early 1941
- March 1941, put on high alert, moved to dispersal field near Belgrade
- April 6, dawn patrol, first contact with the enemy
- several sorties over the day intercepting mass formations of bombers.
- increasingly worsening odds over the next couple days as attrition reduces the number of the defenders while the Germans seemingly have an endless supply of reserves; multiple sorties flown by each Yugoslav pilot every day, some chalk up over a dozen takeoffs in a day. The weather worsens.
- April 9, flight before the advancing Germans in blinding rain and fog from Belgrade to Bijeljina.
- April 10, the Independent State of Croatia was proclaimed; historically, this is when the remaining planes were burned on the ground at Bijeljina to prevent capture, but we might fancy a single plane flying on fuel collected from other planes from Bijeljina to the Rajlovac airbase near Sarajevo, where the Yugoslav High Command was stationed.
- After arriving to Rajlovac, the pilot is being directed to escort a transport plane with high ranking officials fleeing Sarajevo for Niksic; the King and the Government, as well as the Yugolsav gold reserves are already there.
- As the Government evacuates to Greece from Niksic flying in SM.79's, there's one last plane left but no pilot; nobody is in charge, as the Yugoslav chain of command fell to pieces. Our pilot sets his trusty 109 on fire and decides to fly the remaining SM.79 out to Athens loaded with refugees...
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Uzin

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Re: Yugoslavia in two parts
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2015, 07:20:32 AM »

@Radoye:
Many thanks to your expert recommendations on future possible campaigns.
There is, however, trouble with my microdem :
I cannot transfere much more expanded areas into a 50m per pixel maps, perhaps of being short of RAM (?). I have 4 Gb RAM, WinXP, but only small free space on my HDD.
My trial to make single map joined of the two ones shown above failed so far.
The solution might be, to create another set of maps, covering the borders of the present ones, and expanded in the directions needed.
Any remarks on texture choices, please ?
Any gen about the map of Croatia ? I didnot meet it yet.
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Radoye

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Re: Yugoslavia in two parts
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2015, 09:11:16 AM »

Yeah, maybe going for several smaller maps instead of two big ones, with some overlap between them could be the right way.

I'm not sure about the textures, because Yugoslavia was geographically very diverse. Avala's textures would work for central Serbia, inland Montenegro, most of Macedonia, Bosnia, the central Croatian mountains, with the darker forests. For the lowlands in northern Serbia and northern Croatia, these areas look very much like Hungary, mainly agriculture, so you can make it look like the southeastern portion of the Balaton map (south of Pecs). For the coast you need typical Mediterranean look and feel, similar to Italy. For the rest the standard mountain textures like Slovenia would do.

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Uzin

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Re: Yugoslavia in two parts
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2015, 10:29:55 AM »

Yeah, maybe going for several smaller maps instead of two big ones, with some overlap between them could be the right way.
This approach would be nice, covering just the areas needed for certain historical campaigns, sure. But the whole Yugoslavia map could serve from WWI to NATO operations time period.
I regret that hydroplanes cannot simply attack Dalmatia islands, it would be nice campaign. Perhaps dividing the above whole map by east-west line might be the solution ? Or can you draw the rectangles on the above map of your area proposed ?

I'm not sure about the textures, because Yugoslavia was geographically very diverse. Avala's textures would work for central Serbia, inland Montenegro, most of Macedonia, Bosnia, the central Croatian mountains, with the darker forests. For the lowlands in northern Serbia and northern Croatia, these areas look very much like Hungary, mainly agriculture, so you can make it look like the southeastern portion of the Balaton map (south of Pecs). For the coast you need typical Mediterranean look and feel, similar to Italy. For the rest the standard mountain textures like Slovenia would do.

Thank you for this explanation.
Best regards.
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Whiskey_Sierra_972

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Re: Yugoslavia in two parts
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2015, 10:58:29 AM »

And what about the same map but with a further division?

At the two maps with west/east separation you can use the same but with a north/south separation with Sarajevo slightly overlapping on both?

The first set is useful foor nodern and WWI scenarios and the second can be used for WWII (with the northern part of operation and the Sarajevo bombing and the southern part of operation with Italy and Albania involved)....
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David Prosser

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Re: Yugoslavia in two parts
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2015, 10:31:33 PM »

It'd be a good map for the start of the Central Powers campaign in 1915 against Serbia. I guess the airfields will be grass, and mostly left un-populated?

CzechTexan

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Re: Yugoslavia in two parts
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2015, 02:59:46 PM »

This is an interesting map project.  You are asking about textures.  For farm lands...I found that a combination of different shades of green fields works very well to represent spring or early summer colors.  The greens blend without seeing obvious tiling. 

For my new project, I used a combination of basic ones from Bessarabia and Slovakia in this order:
sk_lowland4_fields
rom_fields_lowland2
rom_fields_lowland1

Problem occurs when you want to have a different season of the year like a dry summer.  But the new Slovakia Autumn map has good combination for fall color textures.
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fatty_finn

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Re: Yugoslavia in two parts
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2015, 07:25:11 AM »

Uzin - that's a great idea for a map
especially the map on the left, centred on Sibenik, Trogir etc. 
one WW2 air activity here that hasnt been mentioned:
RAF's 239 wing [and others?] flew many dive-bombing missions, from Foggia and nearby LGs, across the Adriatic & back, to bomb shipping, fuel & ammo dumps along this coast,  in late 43-early44. [flying P40s]
f_f
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Uzin

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Re: Yugoslavia in two parts
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2015, 02:32:38 PM »

Uzin - that's a great idea for a map
especially the map on the left, centred on Sibenik, Trogir etc. 
one WW2 air activity here that hasnt been mentioned:
RAF's 239 wing [and others?] flew many dive-bombing missions, from Foggia and nearby LGs, across the Adriatic & back, to bomb shipping, fuel & ammo dumps along this coast,  in late 43-early44. [flying P40s]
f_f
Yes, Sibenik, Trogir and Foggia are all on the west part of the map pair. There is also Bari, known well from both WWII (more than 100 Ju-88 raid on, besides others,  Eisenhower's ship with yperite, Yak-9DD covering  B-17 on their rerturn from  Poltava}, and NATO wars.
Railway, highway and road net is under construction, location of larger cities beginned.
Help on location and appearance of airfields during WWII would be appreciated.
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Radoye

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Re: Yugoslavia in two parts
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2015, 06:16:34 PM »

Sorry mate i'm extremely busy these days dealing with an emergency situation with black mold in my bathroom, but i will see what can i find.
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doctor

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Re: Yugoslavia in two parts
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2015, 03:03:33 PM »

 ;D
Hello Uzin,
I have one map of Croatia made by guy called "Fly_Z" from Croatia (think from Zagreb, like me) Havent heard of him here on forum for some time.It was started long ago (think in old AAA days ), is very basic and not populated (as much I know newer finished).If You want I can send few screenshots for illustration.Considering YU map it is very good idea to make it in few overlapping segments/maps covering important parts of country.In case You will start this map I can scan/photo map of Croatia(or NDH - Independent State of Croatia - in period 1941.-1945.) with positions of airports, from some of books I have. My opinion is that types of textures used in Avala's Serbia Map,Zuti's Slovenia map;Slovakia map ( when I fly it it looks very similar to surroundings where I live ); and some good Mediterranean map textures for Adriatic Coast from Slovenia, over Croatia to Montenegro will fit perfectly for YU map.

Regards, and fingers crossed this map will show one day.

Doctor
 









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