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Author Topic: Yugoslavia WIP  (Read 46578 times)

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Uzin

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Re: Yugoslavia
« Reply #156 on: October 06, 2016, 03:18:30 AM »

Hi, Max,
do you think the Lake on the picture below?
It is on the map now, still in WIP state as you can see in the right . Perhaps more detailed and correct coast line could be desirable, but consider that I have 58 versions of Mymap_c.tga file now. But I never say never, lol.




Neither the Tara bridge type nor high dam are present in Il-2as as object, perhaps somebody can create them ?
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max_thehitman

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Re: Yugoslavia
« Reply #157 on: October 06, 2016, 01:29:41 PM »




Neither the Tara bridge type nor high dam are present in Il-2as as object, perhaps somebody can create them ?

I have an old 3d-model in my game which came with some 4.09 game version many years ago (Probably with some map),
and it looks like a very tall bridge. It can pass as a tall bridge between 2 big mountains or as a water aqueduct.
Does not seem to come with a dead version of any sort, so this may be a "test model" maybe (?)
I can send it to you for testing.

As for the water dam, I have never seen a dam in the IL2-1946, but I have seen map + mission creators using
diferent objects to create a dam type of thing.
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Uzin

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Re: Yugoslavia
« Reply #158 on: October 06, 2016, 02:22:05 PM »

Hi, Max
let me propose to finish and release the basic Yugoslavia map with common default objects mainly, and only then make a version with similar eye-candies. Testing of similar objects would require a lot of time, I suppose. The release date of the map would be then increased unpleasantly, becoming never ending story, lol.  ;)
What do you think ?  :-|
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Radoye

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Re: Yugoslavia
« Reply #159 on: October 06, 2016, 06:59:46 PM »

@Radoye:
Should I decrease the areas ? But perhaps the whole map could be reworked with this respect ? We can see this after releasing the version for betatesters.

Compared to today, a much larger % of the population in what was once Yugoslavia used to live in villages and on farms in the period before WW2. After the war, the Communists collectivized the farms and started industrializing the country to move the peasants away from their land and turn them into city-dwelling proletarians. This process was largely completed sometimes by late 1960's, so all maps from that period and more recent will show urban areas much bigger and built up than they were historically in the period we're interested in.

For example, Novi Pazar town was ~10,000 population before the war, and today is ~60,000, while the total population of the municipality including villages didn't change much.

Novi Sad, which is ~300,000 today was ~60,000 before the war.

And so on, pretty much everywhere, including the biggest cities. Except one, Subotica in the northeast, right on the border with Hungary. It was the largest city in Yugoslavia when it formed in 1918 with ~100,000 population, it had ~100,000 population in 1940, and it has ~100,000 population today!
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Zoran395

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Re: Yugoslavia
« Reply #160 on: October 06, 2016, 08:08:06 PM »

Hello Uzin!

From experience in Leningrad Oblast: Only period map will show the size of the settlements if you can have them. Veteran stories also give an indication about the size of the villages.
  • Small villages have disappeared completely, either destroyed during the war or emptied in the process described by Radoye.
  • Large villages were much bigger before the war and have now shrunk significantly unless they have been absorbed because they are near a major city. A typical drop is from 130 households then to maybe only 20 to 30 now.
  • Villages that were near the front lines were completely evacuated by the Soviet in 1942-43. This reduced the population after the war with people either staying where they were relocated or moving to cities.
  • Around Leningrad there are large areas where intense urbanization has taken place, these were just fields or forest clearings before the war.
  • There are also many swamps that have been drained and put (unsuccessfully) into culture. You also have new dams/lake for energy production which did not exist.
  • Last but not least post war airfield runway locations often do not match WWII runway locations.

All the best

Zoran
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Uzin

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Re: Yugoslavia
« Reply #161 on: October 07, 2016, 03:41:38 AM »

Thank you very much, Radoye and Zoran, for your contribution.
As for the population oif this map, the actors.static size  is 5 160 kB now, what can be compared with the earlier released Serbia map, where the size is 6 938 kB of one of the variants. So I think new Yugoslavia map would not be overpopulated. Strictly to say, the map might be reworked with respect of site sizes, if the proper info on pre-WWII population of particular villages would be available. I am afraid that it is not.
At present map, I omited several small vilages, in spite of that the number of named sites is above 600.
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Radoye

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Re: Yugoslavia
« Reply #162 on: October 07, 2016, 05:44:39 AM »

I'll see what can i do with regards to 1930's - 1940's population of cities. I'll whip up an excel sheet with the info i find.
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CzechTexan

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Re: Yugoslavia
« Reply #163 on: October 07, 2016, 07:11:26 AM »

@Radoye:
Should I decrease the areas ? But perhaps the whole map could be reworked with this respect ? We can see this after releasing the version for betatesters.

Compared to today, a much larger % of the population in what was once Yugoslavia used to live in villages and on farms in the period before WW2. After the war, the Communists collectivized the farms and started industrializing the country to move the peasants away from their land and turn them into city-dwelling proletarians. This process was largely completed sometimes by late 1960's, so all maps from that period and more recent will show urban areas much bigger and built up than they were historically in the period we're interested in.
Same goes for the Czech lands (and I assume for all eastern bloc countries).  The rural countryside and culture was destroyed by the communists.  Keeping the people in cities is an easier way to control them - You can see  a similar occcurrence in the USA now with like-minded liberal populations dominating the cities.  But that is getting off-topic, so I digress.
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Uzin

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Re: Yugoslavia
« Reply #164 on: October 07, 2016, 12:14:15 PM »

Pristina:



... and Kosovo Pole (left pic.) and Vranje (right pic.):

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Uzin

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Re: Yugoslavia estimated time to release, lol
« Reply #165 on: October 08, 2016, 07:10:38 AM »

Whoever like to know the estimated time to release of this map (and others, too), should see the videos:



Optimism bias is what matters ! :P
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Zoran395

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Re: Yugoslavia
« Reply #166 on: October 08, 2016, 02:51:37 PM »

Pretty good Uzin!
I have had discussion with other map makers recently and in one exchange I said that my map would take about 5 years to complete. I then then did a calculation of how many square kilometres per week I was producing and it is more likely to be ... 12 years !!!
Now that's optimism bias.
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Uzin

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Re: Yugoslavia
« Reply #167 on: October 13, 2016, 02:04:01 PM »

Prizren in south Kosovo:



Podgorica, the capital of Montenegro:

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