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[agracier]

Marruecos has been shelved though should you be wondering perhaps. I id some work on it a few months ago, but the area was too large and the landscapes too diverse. There just weren't enough slots to do a halfway decent job of texturing the map.

Sounds like a map that needs to be split into multiple smaller parts.

I was thinking along such lines as well ... maybe the area around Ceuta and to the east ... a Pillars of Hercules map would be a good name once someone makes a few models of working triremes  ... ha ha

[asheshouse]

Marruecos has been shelved though should you be wondering perhaps. I id some work on it a few months ago, but the area was too large and the landscapes too diverse. There just weren't enough slots to do a halfway decent job of texturing the map.

Sounds like a map that needs to be split into multiple smaller parts.

I was thinking along such lines as well ... maybe the area around Ceuta and to the east ... a Pillars of Hercules map would be a good name once someone makes a few models of working triremes  ... ha ha

Wrong end of the Med. Pillars of Hercules was the name for the Gibraltar Straits.

[agracier]

Of course ... but we were a bit off-topic and discussing the Marruecos map that I have been trying to make ever since I first started with maps ...

[Pursuivant]

Of course ... but we were a bit off-topic and discussing the Marruecos map that I have been trying to make ever since I first started with maps ...

Continuing with the off-topic, it seems that beginning map makers often try to make maps far too big, trying to cram an entire theater of war into one map. It's especially easy to do for large, sparsely populated areas like Russia and North Africa. Maps seem to work best when they only cover about 300-500 km square.

Based on this idea, logically, it would make more sense for Morocco to be divided up as follows:

Straits of Gibraltar: Centered on Gibraltar & Ceuta, taking in Malaga and possibly Cadiz on the Spanish coast and Tangier on the Moroccan coast. This map would be fairly heavily populated, so it would need to be a bit smaller than other maps.

Casablanca-Marrakesh: Northwestern coast of Morocco, centered on Casablanca, with Marakesh to the South and Tangier to the north. Might need to be a bit smaller if the coast is heavily populated. Historically, this would cover French Morocco, maybe taking in areas to the North and South of those cities, including a bit of Spanish Morocco.

Ifni: Centered on Sidi Ifni, with Marrakesh just off the map to the Northeast, extending down to the Western Sahara.

Western Sahara: The area covered by the disputed territory of Western Sahara, concentrating on the coastal regions.

Historically, the first two maps would be important for WW2, while the other maps would cover the one-sided Spanish air operations during the Rif and Ifni wars.

[agracier]

I've already made an Ifni map ... it's about a year old now, but it was one of those that turned out as I wanted it to be.

I also have a Casablanca map in wip, but it should be redone ideally ...

About too big a map area, you are more than correct if you cannot autopop. Once that little technique is mastered though, size matters little anymore. But what is important are the landscape types ... there are just not enough slots in the load.ini to cover a large number of different landscape types. And by large, I mean more than 4 types ...

For Morocco you need a more or less Mediterranean landscape near the coast, a mountainous area, then cultivated fields, then a more southern area that is not really desert and then desert proper ... and that along with a town/village and 2 airfield textures ...

As I said, it was one of my first maps I started on and it was a bit impractical. And now even more so with all the advances and expectations in map making.

[Pursuivant]

About too big a map area, you are more than correct if you cannot autopop. Once that little technique is mastered though, size matters little anymore. But what is important are the landscape types ... there are just not enough slots in the load.ini to cover a large number of different landscape types. And by large, I mean more than 4 types ...

This is very useful information.

For Morocco you need a more or less Mediterranean landscape near the coast, a mountainous area, then cultivated fields, then a more southern area that is not really desert and then desert proper ... and that along with a town/village and 2 airfield textures ...

So you run into problems if you try to go from coastal/cultivated > semi-desert > desert on one map.

I could also see problems if you wanted to have several different airfield or town/village textures, or if you wanted to mix diverse terrain types (e.g., swamp, hills, mountains, cultivated, city) into one map.

I wonder if the limit on map textures would be easy to change within the IL2 code or if it is one of those problems which can't be fixed without completely reworking the game?

[agracier]

So you run into problems if you try to go from coastal/cultivated > semi-desert > desert on one map.

I wonder if the limit on map textures would be easy to change within the IL2 code or if it is one of those problems which can't be fixed without completely reworking the game?

That is one of the problems on a large map. Plus, ideally to go over from one type to another, especially desert, you need a blending texture or an intermediate texture so that the chane is not too jarring ...

Now that you mention it, more texture slots would be more useful than a CEM or bomb fuses ....

[flying_spud]

Haven't time to read all posts but there were some very unusual combats over these islands between Beau's and Arado 196 seaplanes!! The Germans used them as fillers before airfields were constructed, obviously the beaus were faster but if the Arado's got a bounce then they achieved kills............kind of slow and cumbersome v. fast but also cumbersome! must have been odd to watch.

[farang65]

Hi Sir Ag and Pers

Interesting discussion. 

As for Auto Pop I could never get that damn thing to work. I don't think I could even get it to work  in my current Win 7

Regarding pop I do all mine by hand yes takes longer but after developing some different style towns/cities they can be mixed and matched all over a map.

Ag is right concerning large maps with different landscapes and using a buffer texture between each zone realy need extra slots for those alone.

Even with tropical areas (which is what I prefer to do) it would be nice to use buffer textures regarding different vegitation and slightly drier areas. Regarding tropical zones it would also be great to have about 3/4 wood sets on the map for different jungle vegitation.

Ag is right not enough slots in the load ini.

Large maps I think ok especially for added realism majorly long flight times before you reach your target and a long flight home.
It was always never two minutes to action in reality.

Kirby

[badderger]

Agracier, Thanks for the update. My personal feeling is that missions run way better on smaller maps. If instead of one huge awesome map, two connecting smaller (...more awesome) maps is more preferable. Also it seems that it affords the map-maker the luxury of adding more detail and quality to each map. Always with maps, it seems to me that quality is better than quantity. On a small map I can even build my own towns up and add a ton of objects, planes, tanks, etc...without killing the framerate.

And...there are alot of really awesome maps in DBW that I just dont play because they are too big,and/or too many objects. I really love these maps and I am craving to build missions and campaigns on them. But, with a middle-of-the road computer, I have to pass them by....thanks for your ear...

[AntEater]

Problem with smaller maps in Il-2 is that they're usually too small for realistic missions.
And with the Dodecanese (which looks like a great project anyway) I see the exact problem:

Where do the attacking planes take off from?
Except for the carrier raids of HMS Eagle and Illustrious in 1940, the combat above this area was done by planes based in mainland Greece/Crete (Axis) and Africa (Allies), especially the fighting for Leros in 1943.
So it is either air start or not at all.
This is no way meant to denigrate the amazing work of the artist, of course

[agracier]

The person who suggested this map to me also provided the location of some (small) historical airfields ... or so the information was provided.