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[flyingfisch]

This sounds really cool! So if I understand correctly, you're trying for a certain amount of backwards compatibility with IL-2? Will this extend to the point where most IL-2 mods could just be imported straight into your sim, or are you only planning on supporting the maps and 3d models and not the FDMs and other stuff?

Also, when you say the source code will be available, what kind of licensing to you plan on using for this project?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, I'm just excited and curious. Good luck on the project, it definitely looks like it has potential.

[Stainless]

I am planning to support meshes, mods, missions, and effects.

The FM I am writing will be far more accurate and complex that Il2's, but I plan to give you a set of tools to create your own flight models.

The key to my flight model is the aerofoil. Basically you do the static modelling of the aircraft by creating aerofoil sections for the wings and control surfaces, then place them in the correct place on the aircraft. Then you add point masses for the major aircraft systems, fuel tanks, weapons, pilots, etc. and finally add the engines and thrusters (jet nozzles, rockets, propellors).

Then you hit the simulate button and it generates a set of standard graphs you can compare against real life.

Anyway you get the idea.

Engine simulation will be a lot more realistic as well.

The whole thing will be released under a "do what the fuck you want with it" license, apart from the assets which will remain the property of the original creators.

[Koty]

Coast and height are both by 50m. Textures by 200.

[baders]

Just throwing this out there. Personally I can see little value in making Stainless (sim) backward compatible with IL2, especially terrain. The second generation of Targetware (TW v 2.0) was to feature tools to create elevation and coverage model direct from primary sources such as SRTM 30 metre data sets (edit; this was actually World Wind) and Blue Marble for coverage. My thoughts are that you would be far better to build it to that model right from the get go.

As we have seen over IL2s long history. Give the people the tools and they will build it.

[Stainless]

The tools is the key.

I see nothing wrong with supporting IL2 maps as well as having more modern systems.

You have to remember that I am alone on this, I don't have the time to create brand new maps, with roads, railways, buildings, etc and write the code.

So for me, being able to load in a fully populated map is a major plus.

Once I have the terrain system working, I can release the tools and you guys can play, but I need data from the start if I am to have any chance.

[baders]

I understand. If you have the time to program in backward compatibility go for it I would imagine if you coded for the terrain base code plus the tool, the community would right onto creating the content (maps).

I fear for you being alone. Similar to Targetware, Sylvan was the lone coder and when his life changed and he could no longer continue it dumped a number of developer communities into limbo (Target Rabaul, Target Tobruk, Richthofens Skies) and literally unable to continue.

If I can help in any way I would be happy to. I cannot code to save myself, but I have much data to share, as do many of the various developers who have contributed to IL2 over the years.

[Stainless]

Data is lovely.

I like data.

Data taste good, yummy, me wanna get fat on data.

I was trying to build up a map of all active runways at the start of the battle of Britain the other day and was really frustrated. You can very easily get a list of squadrons for each side, then you can look at each squadron to see the airfield they were on, but then things start to fall apart.

What aircraft they flew, what was the real combat strength, it quickly becomes a mess of web sites that have some information but not others.

Gathering data is a complex and important task.

[baders]

Yes, data is the key. I should state that my interests and data lie in the South West Pacific Area of operations during WWII. I have terabytes of data ranging from orders of battles Allied and Japanese (aircraft/units/squadrons/airforces), to primary aircraft flight tests and data (yes, and Japanese), to date specific airfield locations. I worked with a guy called Peril (another Aussie) for quite a few years on Targetware/Target Rabaul. He is probably THE premier flight model guy for Pacific Allied and Japanese aircraft. Peril built some of the Warthunder FMs after Targetware's demise. He is in semi retirement from work now and was doing some flight modelling for Warbirds, but he may well be interested in this.

I dare say that some of the other old Targetware developers might be interested. The talent of the guys that created Target Tobruk (check YouTube) was nothing short of spectacular.

If you really want to build a sim and need the back up and data, you could do far worse than modelling the SWPA of operations ! I think this is an area that has been lacking good representation in the air combat sim world.

I will contact you by PM with my details.

[Pursuivant]

Actually it looks like each pixel of a height map represents 200 Meters in IL2.

Per what I've heard from developers, it actually varies. There's some sort of non-linear function which controls meters of elevation per pixel. At higher lower elevations it isn't 200 m per pixel, at higher altitudes, it's much more. That might have the effect of making mountains "more mountainy" - sharper peaks and all tha - while making rolling hills look smoother.

[Pursuivant]

The key to my flight model is the aerofoil. Basically you do the static modelling of the aircraft by creating aerofoil sections for the wings and control surfaces, then place them in the correct place on the aircraft. Then you add point masses for the major aircraft systems, fuel tanks, weapons, pilots, etc. and finally add the engines and thrusters (jet nozzles, rockets, propellors).

This sounds a bit like what X-Plane does with its blade modeling.

But, I hope that you'll remember that bad things happen to good planes - airfoil shape will change and drag will increase due to damage.

The whole thing will be released under a "do what the fuck you want with it" license, apart from the assets which will remain the property of the original creators.

Nice.

Two things I'd love to see in a flight sim are ability to legitimately make minor tweaks to performance parameters and addition of human factors.

The ability to legitimately slightly alter coefficient of friction, component durability, and/or engine power would allow players to simulate flying a beat up old plane, or a "souped up" plane which has been built by hand by expert craftsmen (like a number of pre-war planes), with a "tweaked" engine, and a fresh wax job.

"Human factors" mostly affect AI, but could also allow for things like failure of oxygen systems, fatigue due to long missions, lack of sleep, or sickness, panic, and so forth. Players can be invulnerable if they want to be, but having an AI crewman black out due to hypoxia, or an AI wingman panic, suffer from tunnel vision, or suffer "target fixation" would help remind us that real people flew those missions.

[flyingfisch]

I fear for you being alone. Similar to Targetware, Sylvan was the lone coder and when his life changed and he could no longer continue it dumped a number of developer communities into limbo (Target Rabaul, Target Tobruk, Richthofens Skies) and literally unable to continue.

Stainless: have you considered hosting your code on github or similar to hopefully prevent this from happening? Even putting it in a private repo would at least ensure that you have current backups.


Edit: Also, what language is this being written in? I am a C# programmer by trade and have experience with other languages, if you ever need a helper. Unfortunately one language I don't have experience with is Java.

[Stainless]

I want to write everything in C#.

Mainly because it supports on the fly compilation. I really want this because it means the modding process is so simple.

Change a code file, run the game ( or maybe just save the file, it's possible). No compilation, no hashing, no external tools, no messing about.

At the moment this is a problem. When it comes to the graphics engine, C# coding is not good for graphics.

I need a bit of time to get a basic framework together and working, then I can start publishing things.