Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Mission_bug]

Maybe I could have some fun adjusting the flight model some day if I had proper reference material. However, if engine parameters are already OK and He 46 FM was well done, then CxMin_0 might be the only adjustment needed to get good enough flight model for reconnaissance plane.

Just a quick update on this for you, I looked at the entries already used for this and they were CxMin_0 0.073 or something like that and when I changed that to
CxMin_0 0.0 it increased the speed to 300km/h:




The flight was performed by AI with the ten 10kg bombload added, unfortunately I only have figures for the Bramo 323
engine which is for the B model but this I think could be considered acceptably close when put against those:

Maximum level speed at sea level:              290 km/h, (180 mph)
Maximum speed at an altitude of 2,000M:      321 km/h, (221 mph)


The quoted armament for the Hs-126 in the same publication gives us:

Two machine guns, one forward firing 7.92 mm MG 17 with 500 rounds and one rear facing MG 15 with 975 rounds in 13 double magazines.
Two bomb magazines each with five 10kg bombs.
One removable rack carrying one 50 kg bomb, this was fitted on the port side.
One 55kg smoke generating pod which would be carried instead of the bomb on the same pylon.

Flares and cameras would be in the observer cockpit.


Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[SAS~Poltava]

I think you fixed the speed problem - great! You are FAST!

About the armament, just a fluke idea, dismiss it if you want: but would it be at all possible to put a couple of those WONDERFUL flares that you use in your Lysander in the bombay, as an alternative to the 5x10kg bombs? 

[ls]

From taking a quick look through the book a few days ago there were photographs of each with the spats but the problem is that
to do it as you suggest actually means having to do four separate folders, A with and without and B with and without.

Hi,

so maybe to add spats as JSGME option;

or better:

Not sure if it would be possible to add the spats as a option in the weapon screen like you would bombs, I thought of maybe summer
and winter options but again photographs show both, I was hoping to get away with a single fix hence doing it as I did.

Yes that's true, spats were used in summer and winter,
but for some practical reasons spats were disassembled in the winter often than in the summer (especially in field conditions - frozen mud and snow could lock wheels, it led to accidents during landing).
So it colud be historically justified to make summer versions with spats and winter without them...

Greetings,
ls

[Mission_bug]

I think you fixed the speed problem - great! You are FAST!

Hello Peter, you can thank Birdman for that one he showed me what to look at.

About the armament, just a fluke idea, dismiss it if you want: but would it be at all possible to put a couple of those WONDERFUL flares that you use in your Lysander in the bombay, as an alternative to the 5x10kg bombs? 

You do really have a thing for those flares.    Not sure if the 10kg bombs are a set load or if they could be a mix and match thing, so it might be one or the other as a load.

so maybe to add spats as JSGME option;

Hello ls, I would not know how, sorry.

So it colud be historically justified to make summer versions with spats and winter without them...

That could have been a option but I have now gone with the A version with and without and changed the java, to do the B means another
aircraft adding a separate FM and another set of folders and they were used in summer and winter anyway so as it is now you will be able
to use a spatted or not whenever you wish.


More reading turns up information on the Greek aircraft, initially they were unarmed but were later adapted to carry two forward firing
machine guns and also had a double bomb rack under the fuselage, not sure if this would have been used instead of the existing one or
with it.

They used both British and German weapons, bomb racks were adapted and carried both with Brownings mentioned for the forward firing guns.


The list of armament is unfortunately in Greek but goes:

2x250kg.
2x50kg.
8x14kg (listed twice so maybe fragmentation and incendiary)


Not sure what can be used for the rack that appears in photographs or the smoke dispenser but what we have so far is something to go at.

There is a German SC 50 bomb available but nothing other than the current Czech 10kg has turned up yet.

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[Mission_bug]

Hello guys, just a update from me to show what is happening to the Hs126 going forward.


First of all the version you have has been causing issues for one of our members, Mark (Bombsaway) and to cure the issue Mike Storebror
has very kindly wrote new java for the type to replace the original, thank you very much Mike, really appreciated.

This was passed along to Edlor and me and further changes were made to remove all entries to the He-46 and replace them with those
for the Hs-126, this included renaming the cockpit so everything is now specific to this aircraft, the cockpit by Dreamk and his
pylons are retained though.

The aircraft is now called HS126A and HS126A_Spats so will replace any versions you currently have.

The new java allows the mod to be used in 4.09, 4.10 and 4.12 base games although certain dependencies will need to be added
to your game to avoid any issues, sadly the FM remains a problem for 4.09 users.


Thank you very much to SAS~Epervier for testing and correcting various hooks in the hier and exhaust meshes.


Okay, first of I have been doing further work on trying to finalise the weapon options so a few figures, thoughts and
questions on that and other things.


These figures are what we normally see bounded about:

1 × forward-firing 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 17 machine gun
1 × flexible 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 15 machine gun in the observer/gunner
Up to 150 kg (330 lb) of bombs

Now I have differing figures primarily in the main reference I am using, 'Henschel Hs126 by Robert Panek and Robert Peczkowski', it
is in the Mushroom models Publications series of books, and from others, so to break the above down into one option we get:

Two machine guns, one forward firing 7.92 mm MG 17 with 500 rounds and one rear facing MG 15 with 975 rounds in 13 double magazines.
Two bomb magazines each with five 10kg bombs.
One removable rack carrying one 50 kg bomb, this was fitted on the port side.


This is the above and the single Mg-17 seen firing is the default with the rear Mg-15





Further to this it is mentioned thus:

One 55kg smoke generating pod which would be carried instead of the bomb on the same pylon on the port side.

Now further reading tells us that the weight of 55kg was actually the empty weight, the fully loaded weight turns
out to be 385kg, this obviously exceeds the stated figure above for bomb load, was a pod accounted for in a different
way?

Anyway, I have tried to replicate this with what I have available pending someone being able to make something
specific:





Two issues for me here, would this load also include the cassette bombs carried in the internal bay?

Secondly do we have a way of generating smoke from a pod in game, I for one have not seen one?


There is also mention of flares being carried, using a gun and line, however that works.  Peter has asked me to include
parachute flares and I have but was this a option used by the Luftwaffe or any other user of the Hs126?




Obviously these are quite different in size and application to the gun fired variety and I have included a mix of the 10kg
bombs with these with two options; bombs first and flares first.

In reality how exactly would these have been deployed and should I really use them as a load for this aircraft?


Moving on again from the stated load option and its weight I find that the aircraft used by Greece also exceed this with
one option indicating two 250kg bombs and also Greek aircraft had a additional forward firing machine gun:






The above load is side by side, however, there are indications that Greek aircraft used double racks where one bomb was behind
the other, further to this it is also mentioned that the Luftwaffe itself actually fitted under fuselage bomb racks in addition to
the one on the port side we are more familiar with, much food for thought here.

The above option is meant to be specific to Greece so the twin guns are part of the load and selectable in the arming screen
where mention is made of 2xMg-17s.


Okay, I can actually release the current model as it is with the changes above, however, it is short of a number of things:

3D parts for the blisters and their single and twin forward firing guns.

A pylon of the actual type used on the port side of the Hs126, there does not appear to be anything available in game.

German 10 kg bomb does not exist in game as far as I know, Czech weapon currently used.

Greek 14 kg bomb does not exist in the game as far as I am aware.

There are also various visual issues that have been mentioned that need a remedy.


Mark, (Bombsaway) has asked about the option of artillery spotter, I would like to add this, however, do not know how.

Peter (Poltava) requested the existing bombs be replaced with German ones, I have done this in certain instances but left
some of the He-46 options there as they were because they might be relevant to the Hs-126 used in Spain.



Could you guys please share any thoughts you might have on the above please so I can judge how best to proceed.


Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[Dreamk]

German 10 kg bomb does not exist in game as far as I know, Czech weapon currently used.

Be my guest  :
https://www.mediafire.com/file/50d4yh46izd5evg/SC10+bomb.7z
(This is one of the new German ordnance included in the WIP Do17  .....)

Greek 14 kg bomb does not exist in the game as far as I am aware

This was a license produced version of the US 30lb M5 Frag and can be found in the US WW2 Air-Ground Ordnance Pack I uploaded a few months ago.

Greek bombs of the pre-ww2/ early ww2 period are a fascinating subject.

Greek arms industry in the late thirties was considered as the most advanced in Southern Europe and the Balkans. The Pyrkal company ("Greek Powder and Cartridge Company") playing among others an in-between role between German Rheinmetall-Borsig (then controlled by Hermann Göring...), and US arms industry. This collaboration between US and Nazi arms industries went on almost undisturbed till 1941.

A critical problem of the Hellenic Air Force in 1940 was that the British made bombers had bomb racks ... for British bomb suspensions and not fit for American bomb suspensions, so a makeshift solution was found in the field by adding suspension collar to these bombs.

The "US series" produced by Pyrkal included the 100lbs M-30, 300lbs M-31, 600lbs M-32m 1100lbs M-33 and 2000lbs M-34, and, what is most relevant here,  an anti-personal Frag bomb which was an identical copy of the US 30lb M5 Frag (all these can be found in the US WW2 Air-Ground Ordnance Pack).

More than 51000 bombs were produced by Pyrkal in 1939-40, though mainly only 2 Greek squadrons used them (the 31 Mira with 11 Potez 63 of which 8 were serviceable at the start of the Italian invasion, and the 32 Mira with 12 Blenheim IVs including 11 serviceable) and rate if attrition were very high so most of these bombs fell in German hands. BTW, It was common practice of the German to re-use captured bombs or to sell them to potential allies - after stamping them with official German seal - and this may explainf the presence of "American" bombs on the Romanian IAR-80/81 aircraft.

[Mission_bug]

Hello Dreamk, thank you very much for the information, really appreciated.


For the Greek load I am currently using the 10kg so now I know what to look for I can hopefully make the change to the correct weapon.

You are right about this being a fascinating subject, I have spent most of the week looking through everything in the game to try and find the
items I need to at least come close to some of the options I have seen mentioned, a rack for the strut cannot be found so your He-46 rack is
there for now.

I have been trying to find a bomb that appears in a photograph of a Condor Legion machine, the nearest I found was a Italian 100 kg:





The actual weapon is similar to that above but has a sort of girth around it more or less where the White marking is, I tried all
the German types and I suppose it most resembles one of the 1000 kg bombs in that it has a rather strange shape.

The situation in Spain was probably as confusing as Greece when it comes to knowing who supplied what or the things that were
licensed to local industry so I think I will just have to settle for what I have for now.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[Dreamk]

Hi Pete
Here the link to the new SC10 (part of the WIP Do17)
https://www.mediafire.com/file/50d4yh46izd5evg/SC10+bomb.7z

The bomb on the "Condor legion plane" is in fact a bomb on a post war (= post SCW) Spanish nationalist machine in Spanish Morocco, and it's supposed to be a Spanish produced copy of a 50kg Italian bomb (the difference with the Italian original 50kg bomb being that the rear cone of the bomb looks like the pattern of the Italian 250kg bomb).
I am suspicious about that as I've got a catalog from 1948 of the bombs produced in Spain after the SCW, and the bombs in this catalog look exactly like their Italian or German originals. I won't exclude a 250kg Italian (or copy) bomb on what was called the "Super Pava" - we have at least an example of a Hs126 used by a German Nachtschlacht unit equipped with a bomb rack under the fuselage for 4xSC50 bombs (200kg in total, more than teh official limit of 150kg of bombs for this plane). However, it is true that the original design of the plane was for a 50kg bomb fitted below the port fuselage;

[Dreamk]

Pete, have you documentation about the German smoke generator this plane could also carry (drawings, dimensions, duration of smoke emission,...) ?

[Mission_bug]

Hello Dreamk, thank you very much for the link I will add that in.

I will also find that US pack you mentioned and look through for the 14 kg.

The photograph is I think the same as in my book although I did not have the view in close which is why I thought there was a kind of girth around it, would
seem it is a combination of lighting and colours giving it the odd look I mentioned, looks like I was close then with what I used, thank you very much, really appreciated.

My own thoughts were it looked much larger than a 50 kg and as the the weight of the smoke pod is considerably higher than I first thought then using 250 kg
might actually be closer to the mark, trouble was the German types did not match what I was seeing in the photograph.


You mention 4x50 kg, well one of my loads includes 3, I utilised the existing fuselage pylons and the one on the strut as one report I read indicated the Germans
had in fact done just that, seems like every time I come across a possible option they all exceeded the official limit.

Guess I also need a four place rack for underneath as well.

Pete, have you documentation about the German smoke generator this plane could also carry (drawings, dimensions, duration of smoke emission,...) ?

I did a pdf of the book I am using a long time ago and posted a link in the SuperSchool or its upper level, however, I cannot find it in the school and do not
have it on my hard drive.

The book does have some information including photographs although no actual technical drawings of it, to get those for you I will have to try and set up
my scanner again and see if it works, you will have to leave that with me for now and I will see what I can do.


Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[Dreamk]

A Greek Hs126 with a locally produced Pyrkal 100lbs M30

[Mission_bug]

Hello guys, just a quick update.

My skin first.

This is what was termed the "export" and was used on early Greek aircraft as well as those used in Estonia; the captured Soviet aircraft retained
Estonian colours until all were destroyed on the ground by the Luftwaffe.



The bombs underneath are German 250 kg, part of the Greek load, although this could equally use British, American or home produced types
as most types of pylon and bomb were at some time utilised on the Hs126 by all users, regularily exceeding what is the published fit and weight.


A attempt to recreate the large bomb seen on the Condor Legion aircraft results in a Italian 250 kg weapon, near enough
I think, there will be two 100 kg to use for Spanish loads, however, the types carried in Spain like Greece could be numerous
and of all nationalities.





The original Luftwaffe aircraft carried SC 10 bomblets in cartridges in the fuselage, these kindly supplied by Dreamk:





He is also responsible for these for the Greek aircraft, 14 kg bomb that was actually a American  30lbFrag_M5 that can
be found in the recent US arms pack uploaded for 4.12 by Dreamk:




Not sure if that pack will be usable in the other game versions this aircraft is intended for but we shall see what develops.


I have been able to find the photographs Dreamk asked for so here is hoping for that particular weapon load.


Wishing you all the very best, Pete.