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[huudi]

I am reading a book by Eric 'winkle' Brown who flew the me163 after WW2. Due to the short duration (he quotes 4 minutes at full thrust) it was intended that if time permitted the 163 was towed to 20,000 ft by two 110g aircraft. Would it be possible to add this feature? He had a team of German Engineers who voluntarily helped so his information is probably accurate.
He also adds that on his first flight he climbed at 45 degrees at over 700 kph reaching 32,000ft in 2.75 minutes.

my apologies if this has been mentioned before, I found nothing in search.
Huudi

[Vampire_pilot]

I have read several books on the subject, among them the accounts of Wolfgang Späthe himself.
I have never even heard about such a plan to deploy the 163B in this manner operationally before. I think this may be the personal thinking of one of the German engineers, discussing "possibilities". I doubt it actually was a "battle plan".

However, the 163 A (preseries) version (with the "cold" engine type)  was towed up for glide and engine testing by 110s.
Most likely there's a confusion between A and B types here. The A type could be towed up only with reduced fuel (75%) due to its weight and the much heavier B type would have been just way too heavy for this.
A type max take off: 2400 kg
B type max take off: 4300 kg

Maybe what it is supposed to mean is that the A type (that was never intended or used for combat) "could" have been deployed that way?

[Epervier]

I believe that this type of towing was used only to test prototypes without an engine.
This kind of thing is common... even the Space Shuttle has been tested in "beast with two backs" mode!

For IL-2 I don't think it is feasible or interesting to do... Because it will be necessary to create new Classes of type (glider with engine), two tractors planes...
The plane you can imagine piloting it?
All the mods that made it possible to pilot a glider are revealed failures.
You only want it in AI?
How do I tell the AI not to turn the engine on at take-off? Otherwise the "glider" will pass its carrier barely take off!

[SAS~Storebror]

The typical takeoff speed for a Me 163B-1 is 320 km/h.
If you try to tow this with a Messerschmitt 110: Good luck.
You'd have to retract your gears at 250km/h latest, meaning that the 110 would have to takeoff some 70km/h earlier than the 163, or in other words a few kilometers ahead.
Accelleration isn't the strong point of a 110 and that's what would be required the most.

This is very different to the 163 A models, as VP correctly explains.

The 163, as far as I know, was strictly consider to takeoff from ground, using it's trolley gear thingy thing.
The projected rocket life time was 12 minutes but in reality, they usually depleted rocket fuel after 5-6 minutes.
Not that it'd matter much for the climb, they'll be up at altitude within that time easily, but the range...
On the other hand, in order to really extend the operational range, pursuit capabilities and loiter time, a "Marschofen" would have been required, and that in turn only became available on the Me 263 / Ju 248.

Best regards - Mike

[Stainless]

It does raise the idea of a fantasy mission though.

Mount a couple of 163's under the wings of a carrier aircraft and drop them when contact with the enemy occurs.

Local fighter support for a few minutes. One way trip for the poor pilots, but would it have made any difference?

I don't think it would have made a lot of difference unless you could put 30 - 40 163's over the formation and launch them in waves, but it would be interesting to find out.

[SAS~Storebror]

The biggest benefits of the Me-163 are it's climb rate and speed.
The biggest issues of the Me-163 are it's climb rate and speed.

Let's forget about the issues resulting from the enormous climb rate for a moment and concentrate on the speed:
Due to the immensive speed excess compared to the target (bomber), the 163 couldn't put too many bullets into the victim.
Even if you are equipped with MK 108s, if you can only bring 3 or 4 bullets into your target (and even that only if your aim is very accurate), chances are that you just fly by with no further damage either to yourself nor to your target.
The solutions was at hands: The SG-500 "Jägerfaust" was the perfect weapon for the 163, since all the pilot would have to do was to fly underneath the target at pretty close range. Not quite hazard-free, but considering the speed advantage, the little time he'd have to stay in gunnery range and the deflection skills required for the gunners to defend against such a tiny bird at high speed, it was feasible.
And the success rate was near 100%.
If you manage to pass your target underneath, you will down it. And probably some more.

This could have made a difference, if it wasn't just another case of too little, too late.

Best regards - Mike

[huudi]

Like everybody else I had never heard of it but this is from a pilot who has flown more types than anybody else, he was also fluent in German. As you say, the high take-off speed of the 163 would make it difficult although he did say two towing 110's. From 20,000' numerous zoom and glide/dives could be performed using "machine guns or rockets?". He agrees from his own tests that the high speed made hitting a target unlikely.
His book (Wings On My Sleeve) is a mine of information on unusual/experimental aircraft that he flew ie: J.A.T.O's on Seafires anybody? 

[Dimlee]

Slightly off topic...

Was high speed of Me 163 such a critical obstacle for aiming at bombers?

MiG-15s were used with some success (or great success - depends on what sources you read) against B-29s in Korea. MiG's cannons did have better ballistic characteristics but contained less explosives - compared to Me 163.
Presence of jet escorts reduced chances of MiGs for multiple attacks, so they could make just 1-2 passes on bombers - same as Me 163.
Something to think about...

Armament of Me 163 and MiG-15(MiG-15bis)
Me 163: 2 x Mk 108
MiG-15: 2 x NR-23 and 1 x NS-37

Mk 108:
Rate of fire    650 rounds/min
Muzzle velocity    540 m/s
Shell M-Geschoss 72 g to 85 g of PETN explosive

NR-23:
Rate of fire    800-850(950 as per some sources) rpm
Muzzle velocity    680-690 m/s
Shell OZ(OZT)   13g (11g) to 15 g of explosive
or
Shell BZ            4g-5g of explosive, armour piercing

N-37D:
Rate of fire    400 rounds/min
Muzzle velocity    665-700 m/s
Shell OFZ          34g of explosive

[huudi]

I think the closing speed made only a brief shot possible, he also mentioned Rockets and I have read elsewhere that Air to air were used but from what I don't  know. The proposed tow to 20,000' obviously allowed more attacks possible.

[Knochenlutscher]

Although the British captured most of the Equipment in service, they feared
to fly it rocket assisted.

Please, Eric Brown in all glory who seated the Kraftei but never
managed to fly it sharp (rocket assisted) is prominent for sure, but his expertise
not worth mentioning. Read his Bio, so quote him on everything else he flew.
He theoretically flew it, never practically got the sense of what he recalled
years after it, and after saying. Why should they spend fuel in that late stages of war on two more
Bf110, not in their combat career and not mentioned by Ziegler and Späte, guys
who flew under combat conditions.

VP is right 

Allies and Tests, only Russians come into my mind.
The Russkies had the guts to produce needed T- and C-Stoff propellants, few tons,
for at least 10 sharp Trials/Flights.

[RealDarko]

The solutions was at hands: The SG-500 "Jägerfaust" was the perfect weapon for the 163, since all the pilot would have to do was to fly underneath the target at pretty close range. Not quite hazard-free, but considering the speed advantage, the little time he'd have to stay in gunnery range and the deflection skills required for the gunners to defend against such a tiny bird at high speed, it was feasible.
And the success rate was near 100%.

That would be an amazing weapon to try.

[fatty_finn]

Hi chaps
coincidentally [?] I just read about the The SG-500 "Jägerfaust"  in the latest edition of "Aviation History" mag, though i never heard of it before.
 The article says this weapon was used operationally just once [pilot Fritz Kelb], and it worked.  Described as "10 recoilless 50mm wing cannons firing upward". Sounds weird - how did they fit them in? The article includes no picture  of the installation.  Anyone know of one?    f_f