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Author Topic: Need Help on US/British Avenger Ordonance  (Read 5911 times)

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max_thehitman

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Re: Need Help on US/British Avenger Ordonance
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2018, 08:04:22 AM »


That is a cool post Duggy.  8)  Very interesting history about those WW2 drones.
I knew they existed but I did not know they were being controlled by this Avenger.
Great classic aircraft!
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Dreamk

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Re: Need Help on US/British Avenger Ordonance
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2018, 01:26:17 PM »

Got some more stuff:
1) Rockets:
The Avenger was the first US aircraft to be fitted with rockets used for ground attack. These were 5-inch HVAR variety with four mounted on each wing.
TBM-3's and TBF-1C's had eight rocket hardpoints. TBF-1C's had generally Mk4 rails. All TBM-3's had Mk5 atatchments. The Mk4 rails reduced the Avenger's top speed by 20 mph, bwhile the speed penalty with 8 5" HVAR's on Mk5 rails was only about 12 mph.
On long range missions you could find sometimes a 6 rockets loadout configuration (3 under each wing)





2) FIDO homing Torpedo
Torpedo Mk 24 ( "Fido" ), in the bomb bay of a TBM Avenger on board USS MANILA BAY (CVE-61), 24 February 1944. A pair of depth bombs are installed behind the Fido.
View from the rear:

View from the front:



3) FAA Avengers and Tarpons:
All rockets attachments were discarded on the British Avenger - Only late in 1945 did the British look to re-introduce a rockets carrying possibility to their Avengers, but war was already over.
Avengers were used in MineLaying Role (British air dropped mines) and Bomber - as a standard 4x500lb British MC bombs or US 500lb AN-M
Other loadout tested (may have seen limited operational use):
Mk. III containers
19" diameter store with parachute (the Australian Storepedo, to be uploaded soon with the part 2 of the Air dropped containers pack)
19" diameter store, fitted with parachute, and 2 depth charges
3 FAA Avengers (FN766, FN795 & JZ317) were tested with "Highball" at Brooklands/Wisley in Octorber 1943, together with Mosquitoes Mosquitos DZ582 & DZ586

a) torpedoes
The British Pacific Fleet (BPF) carried a store of US Mk13 torpedoes for their Avengers but apparently never used them - The British Pacific Force (BPF) was not allowed, under it's operational agreement with the USN, to attack major naval targets in Japanese waters, so having a highly capable naval strike aircraft was not a priority for the BPF. The main reasons (arguably the only ones) not to use the Avenger in the torpedo/spotter/reconnaissance (TSR) role in 1943/44 were its inability to carry the reliable British torpedo (The Avenger's bomb-bay was too short for the British torpedo) coupled with a very low opinion of the US alternative, and its inability to dive-bomb at steep angles (i.e. accurately) because of the internal carriage and lack of airbrakes.



b) Mines:


c) Bombs








FAA Avengers, as the US Avengers could drop Depth Charges (apparently only US depth charges were used) and Frag clusters (Both for  30lb M5 Frags  and for 20lb AN-M40 frag)
2) Depth Charges and Frag Clusters















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sparky

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Re: Need Help on US/British Avenger Ordonance
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2018, 01:48:56 PM »

If you know the squadrons that flew Avengers, or a particular squadron you are looking for, then you can generally find info in the Operational Record Books (ORB).

They list actual bomb loads carried on specific raids, rather than generic load outs mentioned in books.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/raf-operations-record-books-1939-1945/

regards

sparky
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Dreamk

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Re: Need Help on US/British Avenger Ordonance
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2018, 03:31:31 PM »

"Exotica":
1) sonobuoys


2) US Mk10 Air dropped mine


3) Air sea rescue (USN)


4) regular loadout of Canadian navy avengers 1951 (FAA wartime was similar in ASW missions)

hown here are ten Mk 7 smoke and flame floats that burned for seven to eleven minutes (metalllic cylindrical objects with fins, in foreground); 3-in rockets with inert heads; 50-calibre machine guns and ammunition; l l.5 lb practice bombs (four of which are standing behind the machine gun); No.2 Mk 2 smoke and flame floats, which burned for 45+ minutes (flanking the practice bombs); No.1 Mk 4 parachute flares, which burned for four to five minutes (located right next to the No.2 Mk 2 floats); sonobuoys (sixteen are shown here -- they are the numbered cylindrical objects); and four 250-lb depth charges. The smoke and flame floats, collectively called marine markers, sonobuoys and flares could all be launched via the 5-inch chute located in the Observer’s Mate's action station.  The practice bombs and depth charges were carried in the bomb bay, as were homing torpedoes (not shown here).

5) Air sea rescue (Canadian navy avengers)
Avengers were used in the search and rescue role., employing the Air/Sea Rescue  "G" dropper mounted on the port mainplane by means of a light bomb rack. These kits contained life rafts, survival rations and aids. They were designed to open automatically upon contact with sea water when dropped near survivors. Here the wing is in the stowed position.


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henkypenky

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Re: Need Help on US/British Avenger Ordonance
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2018, 03:39:50 AM »

Impresive!
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Piotrek1

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Re: Need Help on US/British Avenger Ordonance
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2018, 01:22:56 PM »

Great topic 8), 3) Air sea rescue (USN), it is possible in IL-2 world? :-| :P.
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Kopfdorfer

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Re: Need Help on US/British Avenger Ordonance
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2018, 06:45:29 AM »

Yes - there is a beta mod out there for air-sea rescue.
If I can retrieve its location I will post it here.

Kopfdorfer
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Piotrek1

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Re: Need Help on US/British Avenger Ordonance
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2018, 11:51:13 AM »

if there is one, it would be great to have it,

It would also be nice to have ASR planes in the game, which could drop boats and just such equipment as in this photo,
but the equipment from other photos would be also very useful. :)
Piotrek
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Knochenlutscher

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Re: Need Help on US/British Avenger Ordonance
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2018, 07:14:12 AM »

Will checkout the ops records archive, Thanks Sparky.
These Clusters I haven't seen before, only the container Clusters.
Will add them soon.
Thanks Dream K for taking the time posting these rare pics.
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Knochenlutscher

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Re: Need Help on US/British Avenger Ordonance
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2020, 05:39:39 AM »

Hi fellow Avenger researchers, I'm taking up the chance to discuss with you reasonable Loadouts
for the Avengers external Stores.

https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,60018.msg704810.html#msg704810

1. So far I'll add the Droptanks to Torpedos, ASW, and some regular Rockx, Bomb loads...
2. Night ops with Flares on ext Stores (ASW, Torp, Bombing)


We can now have cool Mixes with Rockets, internal Stores and the new externals.

I have no ideas about further possible Loadouts, so here's your chance for requests,
likely DreamKs Ordonance or stock, I don't care.

Can somebody say the capacity of the underwing Bombrack in a Avenger?
According that Document TBM-3E says underwing 2x1000lb.

What about TBF-1C, was this limited? I read it was limited on early Avengers to
100 max 250 lb, but I'm not sure about this. Was too long I read about that.

Tobias
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Griffon_301

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Re: Need Help on US/British Avenger Ordonance
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2020, 05:47:14 AM »

would it be possible to add a radar pod and then the corresponding radar station like on the Albacore?
btw, the FM you have sent me some time ago is really good, that should do the trick for the Avengers...
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Knochenlutscher

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Re: Need Help on US/British Avenger Ordonance
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2020, 07:12:42 AM »

Hi Griffon,

I'm overasked at Radar, that's beyond my skills.

Yeah, I think that one hit the Deck. They come really smooth now.

Best wishes
Tobias
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