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Author Topic: Wip Black Sea - retowned and retextured  (Read 3430 times)

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Nowekat

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Wip Black Sea - retowned and retextured
« on: July 29, 2018, 01:50:26 PM »




This map is an original one in 4.13, but also a merge of the former original Crimea and Kuban maps. Texturing is very simple, as there is nearly none. Also the towns are very simple:



But i like this map, and if it's origins may be 10 or 15 years ago it's time to pimp it up. I decided firstly to retown it, but will keep the airfields, the railwaystations and the seaports. These installations also are very simple but also have a kind of retro charm in my eyes.

There are also modded versions of the Crimea map and the Kuban map with great texturing, but they are separated and the population is not at todays possibilities.

To repopulate the big cities i use the buildings template of the MonteCassino/Anzio map as a basis but add some lines of street trees. These are visible in the object map as white stripes along the streets:



For the different town areas i use some variations of this template with a different set of buildings also. I made the towns smaller as they are much to big in the original maps. Sevastopol had about 100.000 inhabitants in the beginning 40s and wasn't a mega city. The original towns are also to big to populate them with a halfway dense building development. Nevertheless they are still quite big, so population can't be as dense as possible. This is a far view to Sevastopol:



The center with some avenues. Crimea is said to have climatic conditions comperable with middle or southern Italy and so there also are a lot of palms, also i don't know if they are spreading around the whole area.



For the suburbs i use a photografical texture. Here it is with the population markings:



Populated this looks like this:



I didn't use the buildings orientation feature of the cityBuilder here, as most objects where oriented fine and i had to rotate only some of the buildings. The same with the texture for small towns, where i still have to add a lot of minor streets:



Also the orientation of the buildings is randomly, there clearly are preferences in the orientation. Also i wrote the population tool i'm not shure how this works ;-)



Here again the population can't be the most dense one. Nevertheless possibly the biggest towns like Sevastopol may be a task for the video card. I did not fly the new populated map yet, but if there is a FPS problem now in a few years the cards will make it ;-) The actors.static may be around 3,5 MB. Thats much but not to much as i hope. 

According the landscape texturing i don't have a plan yet ;-). Possibly i will use the texturing of the modded Cremea and the modded Kuban maps as i shurely can not make it better. Anyway, finishing this project will take some time. So most of the populaded buildings textures are completly unedited yet.

Novekat
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max_thehitman

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Re: Wip Black Sea - retowned and retextured
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2018, 02:05:33 PM »


It´s a great improvement for this entire game!
It will be Beautiful map. I like it.

Thank you very much !

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cgagan

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Re: Wip Black Sea - retowned and retextured
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2018, 02:58:07 PM »

Great job, looking forward to enjoying it in game! Many thanks for your contribution, 8)
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Dimlee

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Re: Wip Black Sea - retowned and retextured
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2018, 03:45:54 AM »

Thank you for your work.

Just please keep in mind the following when you work with Crimea:
1. Climate.
While Crimea is very small it has at least three climatic(or sub-climatic) zones .
Southern coast from Balaklava from Feodosia can be compared to mid/south Italy indeed. One can find some palm trees and other subtropical vegetation there - but in the very small strip of coast (NOT the whole area!), roughly between Yalta and Sudak.
Up in the mountains - summer day temperatures rarely exceed +20C and what you see looks like Alpine meadows in certain areas. Centre to North (Yevpatoria-Kerch line and up) in 1930-1940s was mostly region of dry steppes with sand and salt patches. Some parts were irrigated and developed, mostly around German settlements (see link below) yet many of them declined after "collectivisation" in 1930s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea_Germans

2. Architecture.
There was Mediterranean, East/Central European and Turk influence with addition of new cheaper housing appeared before WWII. Just please keep in mind that it has never been really "European". Catholic/Protestant churches were rare in cities (just 2 or 3 in Sevastopol). There were few mosques, mostly very small ones and only in Crimean Tatar areas (excluding Sevastopol completely). Some Orthodox churches were destroyed in 1930s, those which survived stayed without crosses.

3. Toponyms.
As you are probably aware, original IL2 map was populated with names adopted after WWII. Correct names were returned partly in Black Sea map in 4.13.

4. Coast line and rivers.
This is probably out of modders capabilities and "intrinsic" to IL2 1946 but rivers are just too wide and numerous and coast line is too shallow and plain. Many bays including Balaklava Bay are missing on original and modded maps.

Last but not the least, you might find useful information there:
https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,16373.msg643675.html#msg643675
https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,14350.12.html
https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,54042.msg587886.html#msg587886
https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,43964.msg493068.html#msg493068
Please note the work of Toobone which is WIP.

Thanks again for your efforts to improve Crimea and Black Sea maps.
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Toobone

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Re: Wip Black Sea - retowned and retextured
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2018, 07:53:38 AM »

Hi, Nowekat!
Your Citybuilder is really interesting, maybe try to use it after solved scale\tex problem in stock BS, Crimea & new 1:1 big map of WestBS41-44 (now this work in  skillful hands of Mixx & Chernomor, they try to redid relif in history by this German's aerophoto https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,43964.msg650680.html#msg650680.. but real life still does not allow us to bring the project to finish ..
In any case, IL2Mods is open for mod experiments! Anyone who likes it will take your version, not only Ciberolas or CheshTexan..as I think..
 
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Nowekat

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Re: Wip Black Sea - retowned and retextured
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2018, 04:15:42 PM »

Thanks to all comments. Dimlee, i wished i would have known this about the climatic conditions earlier. Population is ready meanwhile and the whole thing looks very, hm, tropicaly ... . So indeed much to much palms. I will finish the map and than will try to replace a lot of them with other trees. The problem is, there are only very few broad-leaved-trees in the game and they also must be of the quite same size or smaller. I will see what i can change.

There are a few specialists for small rivers around here, but small means 100 m wide at least. I failed to create such small rivers and they are generally much to wide in the game. So i must leave the rivers untouched at the moment.

As churches i use the slovakian ones, as there are no suitable orthodoxian churches in the game. I assume there where a lot of churches around like in everey european ctiy and even in little towns and they where builded before the revolution and as far as i know they were not destroyed mostly. The look and feel may not be authentic so far and the same with the architecture style overall, but there definetly are limitations in the buildings stock. And to be true, i don't know how a town like Sevastopol looked before the war and what the specific look was.

The same with the climatic zones, unfortunatelly. Texture slots are limited and as i use the modded Crimea and Kuban texturing after all there are no slots free for differend zones. But this and the rivers may be points to consider later.

The good news is that also the big towns are flyable. My Geoforce GTX 1060 with 6 GB made it better then expected, with maximun game settings, of course. Flying low over the big cities the FPS of course is quite low and stuttering is notably. But the plane handled normaly and it was not a slide sow at all. Nevertheless the FPS is shurley not satisfactory at the moment. On the other hand i'm astonished it works at all, as there are really a lot of objects around. Looking at the old population somthing like this must have been unthinkable when the game was developed.

Nowekat
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lowfighter

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Re: Wip Black Sea - retowned and retextured
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2018, 11:53:56 PM »

I think it is worth to try to do some justice to Sevastopol.  :)
Here's a great reconnaissance photo around the harbor. Also basically it's the most dense zone of the city. In fact on the standard  il2 Crimea map there exists considerable URBAN area which was actually not there. Instead there were fortifications etc.

http://www.wwii-photos-maps.com/aerialmiscellaneous/slides/Sevastopol%2022-5-42.html
 
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Dimlee

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Re: Wip Black Sea - retowned and retextured
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2018, 03:06:59 PM »

I think it is worth to try to do some justice to Sevastopol.  :)
Here's a great reconnaissance photo around the harbor. Also basically it's the most dense zone of the city. In fact on the standard  il2 Crimea map there exists considerable URBAN area which was actually not there. Instead there were fortifications etc.

http://www.wwii-photos-maps.com/aerialmiscellaneous/slides/Sevastopol%2022-5-42.html

Agree. This area was the most populated indeed. And most of city buildings of 3 floors and up were concentrated in W part of this photo. Everything to the east of South Bay (Sud Bucht on photo) - mostly 1 storey housing except barracks and industrial buildings.
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Dimlee

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Re: Wip Black Sea - retowned and retextured
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2018, 03:30:27 PM »


As churches i use the slovakian ones, as there are no suitable orthodoxian churches in the game. I assume there where a lot of churches around like in everey european ctiy and even in little towns and they where builded before the revolution and as far as i know they were not destroyed mostly. The look and feel may not be authentic so far and the same with the architecture style overall, but there definetly are limitations in the buildings stock. And to be true, i don't know how a town like Sevastopol looked before the war and what the specific look was.

Nowekat

All noted, Nowekat.
Just few more bits.

Churches. Not less 60% of them were either closed, rebuilt or destroyed before WWII - across all USSR. Hard to say about Crimea specifically, but I don't think it was an exception.

Some historical photos of Sevastopol, early XX century mostly:
https://burn-media.ru/index.php/articles/fotoblog/264-fotografii-starogo-sevastopolya-staryj-sevastopol-foto-dorevolyutsionnyj-sevastopol
This is just for general "feeling" of what it was like.
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max_thehitman

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Re: Wip Black Sea - retowned and retextured
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2018, 02:39:20 PM »



Very interesting photos, Thank you all

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mandrill

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Re: Wip Black Sea - retowned and retextured
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2018, 04:36:18 PM »


4. Coast line and rivers.
This is probably out of modders capabilities and "intrinsic" to IL2 1946 but rivers are just too wide and numerous and coast line is too shallow and plain. Many bays including Balaklava Bay are missing on original and modded maps.
Please note the work of Toobone which is WIP.

Thanks again for your efforts to improve Crimea and Black Sea maps.

Narrower rivers are possible. They can be reduced to about 50 meters wide. Smaller rivers than 50m, not possible.

Cliffs and bays can be put in, but it is a lot of work. But certainly possible. The cliffs are made by putting sudden height rises in the map_h. Then you put cliff texture in the map_t. You can make the coast itself more accurate by redrawing the map_c.

I am currently engaged in other projects, or I would help directly.
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Uzin

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Re: Wip Black Sea - retowned and retextured
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2018, 09:22:57 AM »

Rivers can be made even more narrow - by using objects piecewise, see pic.



Suitable object can be d /l here:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/pcojedncp9p9dl4/myditch.7z/file

Static.ini entry:

[buildings.Plate$myditch]
Title           myditch
Mesh            3do/airfield/myditch/AirfieldS/mono.sim

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