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[HeGa]

Hi all,

I love the work being done to keep this game alive. As an occasional player who comes and goes, I've seen all the effort since nearly about ten years.

As IL-2 gets older and older, the visual material inside becomes gradually less and less satisfying to eye. Although community works hard, it seems that modders focus on quantity over quality. Yes, BAT is huge, includes countless aircraft and other things from various modders. But I think it may be the time to start polishing some things instead of expanding the plane count. Some airplanes are better than others, some even has lots of visual glitches. By the way, I play WAW, and my comments are only related to that.

What I'm suggesting is I think there is a need for renovation, especially for commonly used aircraft like IL-2, Bf109, Spitfire etc. you know the most widely used ones. They need higher poly models, better cockpits, better textures. When you see polygon chunks instead of your cockpit parts, instruments or your wings outside; it really bothers.

What do you think about this? And which aircrafts do you think have the best quality visually? Which aircrafts are the most immersive ones in BAT? Maybe we can sort aircrafts according to their visual quality and make a list?

[vpmedia]

When everyone has access to modding then it becomes a natural process, you cant really (quality) control it without making people angry, etc.

BAT's philosophy is may not your thing, but the people need an all-in-one modpack because not everyone wants to fiddle with mod installing.

[HeGa]

When everyone has access to modding then it becomes a natural process, you cant really (quality) control it without making people angry, etc.

BAT's philosophy is may not your thing, but the people need an all-in-one modpack because not everyone wants to fiddle with mod installing.

Thanks for your response. Don't get me wrong, I mean no offense; I respect every piece of work done by modders. I'm just suggesting that, instead of adding new aircraft constantly, I think it may be better to focus on what is at hand now and augment them to a better quality. If you are saying that BAT is just a modpack and this topic is not related to it directly, you may be right. Actually what I'm trying to do is a general call to all modders. I thought this is a good place to say it but I may be wrong, if so, sorry for that. (Maybe SAS Hangar Lounge?)

[marcost]

Hi HeGa,

I think you have to face the fact that we are where we are, unless you want to get involved in modding yourself. I've also learnt over the years that everyone here uses the game in different ways and what may be important to me may hold no interest for others. Additionally, the output has slowed significantly in the last 5 years, so there may just not be the mod-power to achieve what you want.

Additionally, visual quality may not be the 'best' goal. Look at BoX or DCS - both are visually fantastic in terms of cockpit and aircraft models, but I can't get beyond a couple of missions because they feel dead to me - AI, sound, feeling of flight, gameplay whatever. It just doesn't give me the same feeling that 1946 does.

Having said all that, people like VPMedia continue to offer great general and visual improvements and we still have 2048 and 4096 resolutions to explore fully!

best,

m

[whistler]

There is a reason why BAT is regarded as "The most comprehensive combat flight simulator ever assembled". BAT is huge, and that's a strength.

Are canvas knights your thing? Check; Vintage racers? Check; Interwar conflicts? Check; European theaters? Check; PTO? Check; Weird '46 prototypes? Check. Korea? Check. Vietnam or modern ops? Check.

Sure you probably don't need the rest BAT has to offer but when you think about it, having it all is the only way to fulfill all interests and bring us all together.

Regarding quality, I spend 99% of my playing time 'sitting' in a cockpit and detailed cockpits is what I appreciate most. I don't need fully detailed external 3D models I can hardly discern from some distance. IL-2, for me, is combat flight simulator, not a combat flight museum. Skin artists have proven over the years how fantastic a low-poly model can look when painted right. Reasonably detailed cockpits are the deciding factor for me to spend hours with a particular plane.

[cbradbury]

Clearly all graphical improvements are a good thing. However, because BAT is so extensive, where do you start? The first post says the 109 and Spitfire. Fine, but I never fly either. In fact there are so many variants and variants of variants that I have deleted most of them from my air.ini as it was so annoying to have to scroll through the list. I really don't care that the Spitfire Z99 had different coloured fluffy dice in the cockpit to the Z99A.

I am being slightly frivolous, but do you see what I mean? Not everyone wants to fly a Spit, so again where to start? I spend a lot of time in DOF, but find some of the cockpits there very cartoonish, to the extent that again I have deleted many of the planes as I don't like the cockpit, which is obviously a pity. I am trying not to sound churlish as people went to some trouble to make the plane in the first place - I only wish I had an ounce of their skills - so I am grateful for the sheer number sof aircraft in the sim.

It would be fantastic if some of the cockpits could be improved, but as every il2 user likes different eras and aircraft it is a daunting task - the definition of a 'popular' aircraft is probably not all that helpful, although a popularity poll would be interesting - just don't expect me to vote for the Spit!

[vpmedia]

I was not offended in any way by your post. I even agree with you, I was just saying that its not a realistic expectation. Very few people here are trained professionals, for most people this is a hobby and everybody does his best according to his skill level and amount of time he's being to able to invest. People are real sensitive, if you would start telling them to do a better job or work some more on that 3d, they would simply go to another modding site.

[vpmedia]

I spend a lot of time in DOF, but find some of the cockpits there very cartoonish, to the extent that again I have deleted many of the planes as I don't like the cockpit, which is obviously a pity.

Basically we had 1-2 people doing all the 3d modelling of 170+ aircraft, many of the cockpits are placeholders / still WIP...I'm afraid they'll remain so forever. This is a good example where we wanted to do more but did not have the time or enough people with 3d and coding skills. For every project you need at least one 3d modeller, two texturers and one or two coders.

[bomberkiller]

Additionally, visual quality may not be the 'best' goal. Look at BoX or DCS - both are visually fantastic in terms of cockpit and aircraft models, but I can't get beyond a couple of missions because they feel dead to me - AI, sound, feeling of flight, gameplay whatever. it it just doesn't give me the same feeling that 1946 does.

Exactly here is the reason why I always stayed true to my "old" 4.10. & #DBW. 

C.U.P. and B.A.T. are great "upgrades" for IL-2 friends who want to collect everything but that's not my intention. 

 

Gerhard

[Vampire_pilot]

You are addressing this the wrong way, and I think this has become clear already in other replies.

BAT is a collection of mods that already exist. BAT does not "create" mods.
What you are writing is like asking the gallery's curator to improve the brush strokes of a Dürer or Matisse. They're not the right person to ask this, obviously.

But if a modder rather creates a new slot for an obscure hangar queen prototype frankenplane, instead of fine polishing a poly mesh of a 5 year old cockpit mod of someone else, then they have all the right and telling them to rework old mods instead is most likely not going to get you anything, to be honest. But Polymonster =!= better mod in my book anyway. Il-2's stregth is the unbelievable amount of content and diveresity and its accessability.

BAT is a stable, performance enhanced platform with content mission builders can rely on so published missions will be playable. It has become increasingly impossible to reference all stand alone mods needed to play a specific mission and it would be tiresome. Modpacks are the common ground of compatibility and BAT is the most diverse.

Since cockpits have been the item, I want to point out the Bombsight Initiative by Whistler that made a lot of bomb sights available in BAT. It's something looked at and being worked on actually. That so many old ones appeared broken was thanks to a dumb version move by Team Deadalus with 4.12.
 
And look at the many Frankenplanes we have replaced with original mods over time... Things move along, but you got to take what comes around when it comes around.




Oh and let me explain something about managing the BAT...

What people think working on BAT expansions is like




What working on a BAT expansion really is like

[K5083]

Given the size of the gift we've been given and continue to be given with BAT, I feel like any critique or even suggestion can seem ungrateful.  So, I start my comment by recognizing that BAT as it stands is the most fun sim I've ever played, and much more than I ever dared dream I'd have access to before i discovered it 6 months ago.  As someone who used to mod past generations of sims that were much less complex, I have a dim idea of the work that goes into just one small piece, like a new plane.  It's amazing that anyone puts in the effort.

For that reason, although I have a wish list like anyone else, I know that modding IL-2 is a labor of love, and it takes a LOT of love to put in that much labor, and skilled labor at that.  So the few guys with the time and skills will do what turns them on, and I'm okay with that.

As far as quantity vs. quality, again, I'll take what comes.  If people want to rework and improve the hoary old planes, great.

On the other hand, quantity-wise, there are still plenty of directions to take the sim.  If some modding team gets obsessed with postwar British, especially naval, types, and wants to give us an Attacker, Sea Vixen, Javelin, British versions of the Skyraider and Phantom, proper 3d models for the Sea Fury and Firefly, etc., etc., etc., or if someone wants to do an enhanced NORAD unit with CF-100s, CF-105s, F-89s, and long-range Soviet bombers for them to intercept over Canada, I won't be standing there saying, "NO!  Fix the Spitfires first!".

If I really wanted to influence the direction of the sim, I guess I'd apply to be part of the modding team.  Don't know if they'd have any use for the old fart who first cracked the 3d models in Aces Over Europe, but you never know.

August

[cbradbury]

The Blackburn Buccaneer please please please!