Special Aircraft Service

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Map scale  (Read 2788 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Dr Strangelove

  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
Map scale
« on: November 25, 2019, 01:36:41 PM »

The Italy map feels really weird, is it up to 1:1 scale? Flying around the English Channel feels very different - it takes just a moment to get from Tunis to Sicily, and just another moment to circle the island.

What about other maps? What’s the most prevalent scale?
Logged

western0221

  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6790
  • Live in Japan
    • IL-2 itaki blog
Re: Map scale
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2019, 02:51:38 PM »

There are 5 different "Italy" map in B.A.T. v3.7.2 .
Though I don't know which Italy map you are referring, about "War over Italy" map, that is 1:4 small scale one.

Not only it, some mod maps are made in small scale to contain wider area than il-2 1946 system can handle.
And about another reason, building a Big map in 1:1 scale is hard work for map makers.
Logged

Dr Strangelove

  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
Re: Map scale
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2019, 05:58:26 PM »

There are 5 different "Italy" map in B.A.T. v3.7.2 .
Though I don't know which Italy map you are referring, about "War over Italy" map, that is 1:4 small scale one.

Not only it, some mod maps are made in small scale to contain wider area than il-2 1946 system can handle.
And about another reason, building a Big map in 1:1 scale is hard work for map makers.

Yes, the one that felt really odd was the War over Italy that is used by the DCG campaign of the same name. 1:4 is particularly small and weird and after flying other simulators just feels incredibly unrewarding and unrealistic.

I know that 1:1 can be really hard to make, but maps made to scale don’t really work in flight simulators, I think, especially since sims like FSX or X-Plane are 1:1, as are some combat flight sims like WOFF.
Logged

western0221

  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6790
  • Live in Japan
    • IL-2 itaki blog
Re: Map scale
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2019, 07:32:55 AM »

Generally "1:1 scale" or "covering wide area" is an exclusive choice in IL-2 1946.

About stock game maps (4.13.4m ones), the biggest ground map is in 400 km X 300 km size.
Wider maps like 500 km X 400 km or 600 km X 400 km contains their 1/2 areas a gulf or a sea, not ground.
800 km X 800 km or 1000 km X 1000 km maps are ocean + islands ..... Hawaii or Tarawa. Those maps' ground area are not big.

When you dislike small scale maps, you can exclude those maps not to play; of course dynamic campaign missions.



Or .... Do It Yourself.
Logged

Alex840

  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 160
Re: Map scale
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2019, 10:57:03 AM »

As a map maker, i see there are 2 main reasons why there are not many large 1:1 maps in Il-2:

- It's very time consuming, hard work to make. Think about a area full of rivers and lakes, and consider that you have to work in a raster tga image with 1px = 50m to draw, pixel to pixel, every river or another water body. Sea and some lakes are easy to make, as you can select the area directly in SRTM or Landsat/photo images and use bucket fill tool, but rivers are a pain in the butt task, as you have to recognize manually where the thalweg is in drainage basins, and draw pixel to pixel the river's way. Make roads and rail is the same thing, except that you work in a smaller image where 1 px = 200 m.

- It's very resource demanding. Map_c, the image file used by game engine to know where in the map is soil or water, is a 50m/pixel as I stated above. So think about a 1000 x 1000 km map: you have a 20k x 20k pixels map_c raster tga image. Other files, except ed_map0x, are 200 m/px tgas, so you have a 5k x 5k pixels images. You have to make some image processing tasks like color or wizard selecting, bucket fills, blur and so on in these huge image files. So, you need a powerful computer with a plenty of RAM, HDD storage and processing power, and a lots of patience with computer crashes and freezes for this.

Another problem is game engine limitations, as in Il-2 you can't have maps bigger than 1000 x 1000 km. In theory, you can render this kind of map ingame, but FMB cannot write waypoints with more than 6 digits coordinates, so only the SW portion of map up to 1000k,1000k coordinates will be usable for missions.
Logged

Gubi

  • Flying Ass Clown #34
  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1276
  • RIP
Re: Map scale
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2019, 11:21:10 AM »

Well put.  Cheers and prost.
Logged
I am a moron.

NobleNerd

  • Spinny Wing Machine Flyer Person
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 200
  • I need bacon.
Re: Map scale
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2019, 01:51:18 PM »

This has me curious...

What scale is the Manchuria map? Should I adjust aircraft fuel amounts to make it more realistic? :/
Logged

FAA

  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: Map scale
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2019, 05:38:11 PM »

This has me curious...

What scale is the Manchuria map? Should I adjust aircraft fuel amounts to make it more realistic? :/

My thoughts exactly. I’m working on a few missions and there’s no info regarding the map scale, meaning it’s hard to adjust the fuel and flying times.
Logged

Squashman

  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 554
  • No, I am Spartacus
Re: Map scale
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2019, 12:55:06 AM »

This has me curious...

What scale is the Manchuria map? Should I adjust aircraft fuel amounts to make it more realistic? :/

My thoughts exactly. I’m working on a few missions and there’s no info regarding the map scale, meaning it’s hard to adjust the fuel and flying times.

Just do a simple experiment to find the scale of a map; example as follows

https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,62284.msg685878.html#msg685878

regards
Logged

NobleNerd

  • Spinny Wing Machine Flyer Person
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 200
  • I need bacon.
Re: Map scale
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2019, 07:20:53 AM »

Okay, so with that test...

The real-life distance from Vladivostok to Hunchun (both cities are on the Manchuria map) is 127km.

An in-game aircraft traveling from one of these cities to the other on the Manchuria map at 250km/h will reach its destination in about 30 minutes.

So, the map scale of Manchuria is more or less 1:1. Pretty impressive.
Logged

Gubi

  • Flying Ass Clown #34
  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1276
  • RIP
Re: Map scale
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2019, 07:30:49 AM »

There you have it.  Prost
Logged
I am a moron.

Alex840

  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 160
Re: Map scale
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2019, 11:34:12 AM »

There is a simpler way to check the scale: take the distance between 2 known points A and B on the real terrain and draw two flight waypoints between these same points on the map in FMB and set this flight for the player. Save the mission and play. In the briefing screen you will see the distance between the points on the flight path.

The scale will be this distance in the briefing divided by the actual distance in real terrain. For best results, choose two points that make a diagonal on the map (NW, NE, SW, or SE directions). So you will consider 2D projection distortions.

Consider that no map in Il-2 will be true 1:1 scale due distortion, because il-2 uses a flat earth terrain model.
Small differences over long distances will always occur.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.266 seconds with 25 queries.