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Author Topic: Raising gunsights...  (Read 8456 times)

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greybeard

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Re: Raising gunsights...
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2020, 12:47:32 PM »

rollnloop,

deflection shooting keeps target downward, hence my choice (and seemingly that of many real pilots). Player's POV has been raised accordingly, and bullets still land in the reticle center.
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rollnloop

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Re: Raising gunsights...
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2020, 03:09:18 PM »

Great  8)
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greybeard

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Re: Raising gunsights...
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2020, 12:15:19 AM »

La-5FN



for comparison, please watch following picture, noticing height of gunsight above dashboard and in respect of windshield:



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TXZCJSP

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Re: Raising gunsights...
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2020, 06:21:57 AM »

wow
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greybeard

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Re: Raising gunsights...
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2020, 04:53:29 AM »

Yak-1B


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rollnloop

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Re: Raising gunsights...
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2020, 10:22:19 AM »

Niiiiiiice   ]blob9[
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greybeard

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Re: Raising gunsights...
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2020, 10:40:09 AM »

P-63

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WxTech

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Re: Raising gunsights...
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2020, 04:26:16 AM »

Pointed out for general consumption, because Giuseppe probably knows all this. ;)

When raising the gunsight by X amount, in the cockpit's hier.him it's necessary, of course, to similarly raise the reticle mask mesh. While not absolutely necessary to do so also for the reticle mesh in hier.him, it's wise (if not good form) to raise it equally. This ensures that the bullet stream will not become offset (provided things originally were properly aligned.)

If our game placed the reticle very far ahead of the plane, say, 100m, such tweaks to sight placement would not require to move the reticle. But because the reticles for our planes are typically located approximately 10m (1,000cm) ahead of the pilot, a change in sight placement of 1cm induces an offset of about 1/1,000, or 1 mil. 5cm would be 5 mils. Not particularly notable offsets, but worthwhile to avoid.

Now, some 'pits have the reticle nearer than 10m--down to about 8-ish, as I recall--and so an offset would result in a somewhat larger line-of-sight departure in mils.

And of course, a suitable raising of the PoV is a good thing to do as well.

I started doing this kind of thing for myself years ago... Some of the old stock sight placements were horribly low, presumably to 'hide' the cowling (and wing) gaps. The old MiG-3 was a particularly good example of a too-low sight.
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greybeard

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Re: Raising gunsights...
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2020, 05:15:38 AM »

Spitfire Mk.Vb "Aboukir Filter"



I realized, in making this type of mod, that it often involves the 3D model of the entire airplane. This forces me to "customize" the mod itself, sometimes, to a single model, without being able to generalize it to the entire range. In addition, it must be adapted to a specific version of the game or "modpack" to make sure it works.
As a result, I have already started distributing this type of mod included as an option in my most recent campaigns (new or updated), customized for them.
In the future I will try to offer updates of existing mods, concerning the cockpit, which will include as generalized as possible versions of the "raised gunsights".
Thanks for your attention.
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WxTech

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Re: Raising gunsights...
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2020, 09:24:08 AM »

To amplify on Giuseppe's previous post, in a general way.

Many gun sights are built such that the gun sight is comprised of elements from two or more discrete materials. For instance, the sight body, reflector plate and sight mount could be made from their own separate texture elements. No problem there, especially when differing lighting characteristics (e.g., Specular in the .mat file) are to be assigned. I do this all the time.

The problem arises from the unfortunate practice of putting these sight elements in a larger mesh, such as that for, say, the body of the 'pit itself. To alter such a sight requires to isolate the sight elements scattered about in a much larger mesh. And if a particular material for the sight also is used for other non-sight parts, the sight vertices/polygons must be further weeded out, leaving the rest as is.

In my case, I mostly make wholly new sights. And so I cut out and dispose of like a tumor the original sight, creating for the new sight its own individual mesh and cockpit hier.him entry. In this way, subsequent sight alterations are a breeze to undertake. Ultimately all planes not yet having separated-out sights would benefit from such an overhaul.
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greybeard

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Re: Raising gunsights...
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2020, 02:15:31 AM »

A curious case.

Trying to raise the Ki-61's gunsight a bit, I extracted from the game version 4.13.4 the related cockpit files: hier.him and body.msh. But what was my surprise to see that the latter DOES NOT HAVE SECTIONS [Hooks] and [HookLoc]! Here it is its initial part:

Code: [Select]
//Generated by MshReader 1.18 by Dr.Jones

[Common]
NumBones 0
 FramesType Single
 NumFrames 1

[LOD]
0

[Materials]
Cables
Chain
EQpt_I
FloorEQ
Frame
Frame2
GP_I
GP_III
GP_IV
GP_VIII
Hydraulics
Hydraulics_T
Leather
LSideEQ
Non_I
OxigenRegulator
RSideEQ
Sides
Throttle
Trans_V
GP_I_night
GP_III_night
GP_IV_night
GP_VIII_night

[FaceGroups]
2790 2104
...

and now how do I raise the player's point of view? o_O

But the surprises do not end here: the hier.him also has a strange section [DUMMY_ROOT] that looks a lot like the Storebror's Placeholder:

Code: [Select]
[_ROOT_]
VisibilitySphere 2.01524
[DUMMY_ROOT]
Mesh DummyRoot
Parent _ROOT_
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0.000 0.026 0.0
[Z_Z_RETICLE]
Mesh Z_Z_RETICLE
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Attaching 0 -1 0 0 0 1 -1 0 0 9.53576 -0.02662 0.81054
[Z_Z_MASK]
Mesh Z_Z_MASK
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Attaching 0 1 0 -1 0 0 0 0 1 5.95955 -0.02662 0.81054
[Z_Z_MASK_D1]
Mesh Z_Z_MASK_D1
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Attaching 0 1 0 -1 0 0 0 0 1 5.95955 -0.02662 0.81054
[FlareGearDn_A]
Mesh FlareGearDn_A
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Attaching 0.189866 0.98181 0 0.98181 -0.189866 0 0 0 -1 -0.46606 -0.19577 0.37314
[FlareGearDn_B]
Mesh FlareGearDn_B
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Attaching 0.189866 0.98181 0 0.98181 -0.189866 0 0 0 -1 -0.4722 -0.23208 0.37314
[FlareGearDn_C]
Mesh FlareGearDn_C
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Attaching 0.189866 0.98181 0 0.98181 -0.189866 0 0 0 -1 -0.46962 -0.21456 0.33167
[FlareGearUp_A]
Mesh FlareGearUp_A
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Attaching 0.189866 0.98181 0 0.98181 -0.189866 0 0 0 -1 -0.46923 -0.21334 0.37314
[FlareGearUp_B]
Mesh FlareGearUp_B
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Attaching 0.189866 0.98181 0 0.98181 -0.189866 0 0 0 -1 -0.47613 -0.25019 0.37314
[FlareGearUp_C]
Mesh FlareGearUp_C
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Attaching 0.189866 0.98181 0 0.98181 -0.189866 0 0 0 -1 -0.47295 -0.23213 0.33167
[FlarePilonEn_L]
Mesh FlarePilonEn_L
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Attaching 1 0 0 0 0.0015015 -0.999999 0 0.999999 0.0015015 -0.9577 0.33522 0.4302
[FlarePilonEn_R]
Mesh FlarePilonEn_R
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Attaching 1 0 0 0 0.0015015 -0.999999 0 0.999999 0.0015015 -0.9577 0.33522 0.41074
[GS_Glass_D0]
Mesh GS_Glass_D0
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Attaching 0 1 0 -1 0 0 0 0 1 -0.54955 -0.02611 0.74119
[GSDimmArm]
Mesh GSDimmArm
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Attaching 0 0 -1 -5e-007 1 0 1 5e-007 0 -0.57063 -0.02662 0.76933
[GS_Glass_D1]
Mesh GS_Glass_D1
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Hidden
Attaching 0 1 0 -1 0 0 0 0 1 -0.80917 -0.02708 0.84217
[Body]
Mesh Body
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Attaching 0 1 0 -1 0 0 0 0 1 -0.67798 -0.02662 0.28483
[Floor]
Mesh Floor
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Attaching 0 1 0 -1 0 0 0 0 1 -0.7321 -0.23195 -0.08189
[Seat]
Mesh Seat
Parent floor
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0.01877 -0.02361 0.03191
[Frame]
Mesh Frame
Parent body
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 -9.99998e-005 0.26317 0.29052
[Front]
Mesh Front
Parent body
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 -9.99998e-005 0.27729 0.29052
[Gages]
Mesh Gages
Parent Front
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0.2316 -0.47864 -0.19253
[Gages_D1]
Mesh Gages_D1
Parent Gages
Hidden
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0
[GIND1]
Mesh GIND1
Parent Front
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 -0.19707 -0.485 -0.22038
[GIND2]
Mesh GIND2
Parent Front
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 -0.19707 -0.485 -0.22038
[windshieldglass]
Mesh windshieldglass
Parent body
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 -9.99998e-005 0.26317 0.29052
[rearglass]
Mesh rearglass
Parent body
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0.64009 0.33988
[Z_GS_mechanic]
Mesh Z_GS_mechanic
Parent Body
Attaching -0.207883 0 -0.978154 0 1 0 0.978154 0 -0.207883 0.03431 -0.01608 0.49001
[Canopy]
Mesh Canopy
Parent body
Attaching -1 -1e-005 0 1e-005 -1 0 0 0 1 -9.99998e-005 0.26317 0.29052
[Z_Gear1]
Mesh Z_Gear1
Parent Body
Attaching -0.975483 -7.56898e-006 0.220076 7.56899e-006 -1 0 0.220076 0 0.975483 0.36541 0.18768 -0.23446
[Z_canopylock_R]
Mesh Z_canopylock_R
Parent Canopy
Attaching -1 1e-005 0 -1e-005 -1 0 0 0 1 0.300984 0.354327 0.05535
[Z_canopylock_L]
Mesh Z_canopylock_L
Parent Canopy
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 -0.301176 0.354333 0.05535
[Z_stickmount]
Mesh Z_stickmount
Parent body
Attaching 0 0 1 0 -1 0 1 0 0 0 0.0427 -0.409
[Z_Column]
Mesh Z_Column
Parent Z_stickmount
Attaching 0 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0.07547 -2.63071e-008 -1.31071e-009
[Z_elevshtck]
Mesh Z_elevshtck
Parent Z_Column
Attaching 0 0 1 0 1 0 -1 0 0 -0.000230014 0 -0.07547
[Z_PriTrigger]
Mesh Z_PriTrigger
Parent Z_Column
Attaching 0 -0.998629 -0.05234 -0.00657998 -0.0523399 0.998608 -0.999978 0.000339999 -0.00656999 0.01287 0.00498 0.47164
[Z_SecTrigger]
Mesh Z_SecTrigger
Parent Z_Column
Attaching 0.471001 0.00927185 0.882084 -0.79286 0.442812 0.418678 -0.386713 -0.896569 0.215907 0.00591999 0.03452 0.45663
[Z_Pedal_L]
Mesh Z_Pedal_L
Parent body
Attaching 0 -1 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0.26404 -0.40254 0.08293
[Z_WlBreak_L]
Mesh Z_WlBreak_L
Parent Z_Pedal_L
Attaching 0.975172 0 0.22145 0 1 0 -0.221451 0 0.975172 -0.08429 0.02509 -0.34201
[Z_Pedal_R]
Mesh Z_Pedal_R
Parent body
Attaching 0 -1 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 -0.26405 -0.40254 0.08293
[Z_WlBreak_R]
Mesh Z_WlBreak_R
Parent Z_Pedal_R
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 -0.08429 -0.02509 -0.34201
[Z_ElevTrimHandl]
Mesh Z_ElevTrimHandle
Parent body
Attaching 0 0.707107 -0.707107 -1 0 0 0 0.707107 0.707107 0.35894 0.18421 0.06247
[Z_NeedElevTrim]
Mesh Z_NeedElevTrim
Parent body
Attaching -1 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0.38559 0.19152 0.08459
[Z_FlapLever]
Mesh Z_FlapLever
Parent body
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0.36541 0.36569 -0.23446
[Z_OilCoolerLvr]
Mesh Z_OilCoolerLvr
Parent body
Attaching -1 -1e-005 0 1e-005 -1 0 0 0 1 0.36541 0.24566 -0.23446
[Z_TQHandle]
Mesh Z_TQHandle
Parent body
Attaching 0 1 0 -1 0 0 0 0 1 0.37732 -0.03832 -0.04025
[Z_PropPitchLvr]
Mesh Z_PropPitchLvr
Parent body
Attaching 0 1 0 -1 0 0 0 0 1 0.38191 -0.03832 -0.04025
[Z_MixLvr]
Mesh Z_MixLvr
Parent body
Attaching 0 1 0 -1 0 0 0 0 1 0.3822 0.03409 -0.14708
[Z_MagSwitchSel]
Mesh Z_MagSwitchSel
Parent front
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0.29793 -0.45236 -0.14638
[NeedCompass_A]
Mesh NeedCompass_A
Parent Gages
Attaching 1 0 0 0 0.295188 -0.955439 0 0.955439 0.295188 -0.2315 -0.02838 0.19679
[NeedCompass_B]
Mesh NeedCompass_B
Parent NeedCompass_A
Attaching 0 -0.295188 -0.955439 1 0 0 0 -0.955439 0.295188 0 -0.00345043 -0.04081
[NeedAlt_Km]
Mesh NeedAlt_Km
Parent Gages
Attaching -1 0 0 0 0.000475285 -1 0 -1 -0.000475285 -0.32492 -0.02189 0.16598
[NeedAlt_M]
Mesh NeedAlt_M
Parent Gages
Attaching -1 0 0 0 0.000475285 -1 0 -1 -0.000475285 -0.32492 -0.02294 0.16598
[NeedBank]
Mesh NeedBank
Parent Gages
Attaching -1 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 -0.13986 -0.02381 0.40937
[NeedTurn]
Mesh NeedTurn
Parent Gages
Attaching -1 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 -0.13986 -0.02329 0.24003
[NeedClimb]
Mesh NeedClimb
Parent Gages
Attaching 0 0 -1 1 0 0 0 -1 0 -0.31756 -0.02329 0.26633
[NeedFuel]
Mesh NeedFuel
Parent Gages
Attaching -0.952332 0.174016 -0.250564 0.249137 -0.029478 -0.96802 -0.175935 -0.984284 -0.015216 -0.53461 0.01354 -0.00223002
[NeedFuelPress]
Mesh NeedFuelPress
Parent Gages
Attaching -1 0 0 0 0.110953 -0.993826 0 -0.993826 -0.110953 -0.33941 -0.01216 -0.02766
[NeedHour]
Mesh NeedHour
Parent Gages
Attaching 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 -1 0 -0.2315 -0.02186 0.09963
[NeedMin]
Mesh NeedMin
Parent Gages
Attaching 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 -1 0 -0.2315 -0.02291 0.09963
[NeedManPress]
Mesh NeedManPress
Parent Gages
Attaching 0.983194 0.182566 0 0 -0.000475285 1 0.182566 -0.983193 -0.000475432 -0.02785 -0.00261 0.04589
[NeedOilPress]
Mesh NeedOilPress
Parent Gages
Attaching -1 0 0 0 0.110953 -0.993826 0 -0.993826 -0.110953 -0.26578 -0.01293 -0.02766
[NeedOil_L]
Mesh NeedOil_L
Parent Gages
Attaching -0.987796 -0.0174317 0.154772 -0.155859 0.109894 -0.981647 0 -0.993826 -0.110953 -0.18952 -0.01351 -0.02766
[NeedOil_R]
Mesh NeedOil_R
Parent Gages
Attaching -0.988377 0.0169044 -0.151083 0.152089 0.109842 -0.982244 0 -0.993826 -0.110953 -0.19925 -0.01351 -0.02766
[NeedRPM]
Mesh NeedRPM
Parent Gages
Attaching -0.983194 -0.182566 0 0 0.000475285 -1 0.182566 -0.983193 -0.000475432 0.00991 0.00386 -0.06791
[NeedSpeed]
Mesh NeedSpeed
Parent Gages
Attaching -1 0 0 0 0.000475285 -1 0 -1 -0.000475285 -0.13986 -0.02294 0.16598
[NeedVAmmeter]
Mesh NeedVAmmeter
Parent Gages
Attaching 0 -0.910627 -0.41323 0.000475523 -0.41323 0.910627 -1 0 0.000475285 -0.62057 0.12474 -0.25209
[NeedExhTemp]
Mesh NeedExhTemp
Parent Gages
Attaching 0.831015 0.154508 -0.53436 0.525337 0.0974608 0.845294 0.182566 -0.983193 -0.000475432 0.09411 0.02065 -0.09548
[NeedCoolantT_L]
Mesh NeedCoolantT_L
Parent Gages
Attaching -0.989336 -0.0163745 0.144729 -0.145814 0.109889 -0.98319 0 -0.993826 -0.110953 -0.11605 -0.01351 -0.02766
[NeedCoolantT_R]
Mesh NeedCoolantT_R
Parent Gages
Attaching -0.987877 0.0174331 -0.154257 0.155263 0.109846 -0.981747 0 -0.993826 -0.110953 -0.12578 -0.01351 -0.02766
[NeedFreeAirTemp]
Mesh NeedFreeAirTemp
Parent Gages
Attaching 0.981864 0.189241 -0.0114115 0.0171171 -0.0285284 0.999446 0.188702 -0.981533 -0.031371 0.14427 0.02949 -0.02099
[NeedFlap]
Mesh NeedFlap
Parent Gages
Attaching -0.985541 0.169438 0 0 0 1 0.169438 0.985541 0 -0.40499 -0.00939 0.09547
[NeedRadiator]
Mesh NeedRadiator
Parent Gages
Attaching 0.985541 -0.169438 0 0 0 -1 0.169438 0.985541 0 -0.40387 -0.00958002 0.0557
[NeedOx_Press]
Mesh NeedOx_Press
Parent Gages
Attaching -0.853574 0.520972 0 0 0 -1 -0.520972 -0.853574 0 -0.57964 0.07417 0.11295
[NeedOx_Quan]
Mesh NeedOx_Quan
Parent Gages
Attaching -0.853574 0.520972 0 0 0 -1 -0.520972 -0.853574 0 -0.57964 0.07417 0.16575
[NeedHPres_01]
Mesh NeedHPres_01
Parent Gages
Attaching 0.925482 -0.378791 0 0 0 -1 0.378791 0.925482 0 0.14937 0.66155 0.02846
[NeedHPres_02]
Mesh NeedHPres_02
Parent Gages
Attaching 0.925625 -0.378441 0 0 0 -1 0.378441 0.925625 0 0.14937 0.66155 -0.04359
[Z_wndshld_holes]
Mesh Z_wndshld_holes
Parent windshieldglass
Hidden
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0.19186 -0.45992 0.24659
[OilSplats]
Mesh Z_wndshld_oil
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Hidden
Attaching 0 1 0 -1 0 0 0 0 1 -0.94115 -0.02672 0.57535
[Z_rrgls_hole]
Mesh Z_rrgls_hole
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Hidden
Attaching 0 1 0 -1 0 0 0 0 1 -1.5791 -0.23801 0.84508
[Z_canopy_holes]
Mesh Z_canopy_holes
Parent Canopy
Hidden
Attaching -1 1e-005 0 -1e-005 -1 0 0 0 1 -0.236112 -0.192178 0.24461
[XHullDamage1]
Mesh XHullDamage1
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Hidden
Attaching 0 1 0 -1 0 0 0 0 1 -0.47502 -0.18392 0.43091
[XHullDamage2]
Mesh XHullDamage2
Parent DUMMY_ROOT
Hidden
Attaching 0 1 0 -1 0 0 0 0 1 -0.77374 0.23307 0.27216
[mast]
Mesh mast
Parent _ROOT_
Attaching 0 -1 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 -0.84212 0.02721 0.39885

However I don't find all the elements of the gunsight; some are signed GS, but others are confused in the structure. And anyway, even if I find them all to raise them, I wouldn't know how to raise the POV accordingly... :(
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CPU: AMD Athlon 64 - RAM: 2GB DDR @ 201 MHz - MoBo: ASUSTeK Computer INC. A8N-SLI (Socket 939) - Vidcard: 1024MB NVIDIA GeForce 9400 GT (Club3D) - Screen: L1750SQ (1280x1024@75Hz) - Audio: Realtek AC'97 Audio.

WxTech

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Re: Raising gunsights...
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2020, 09:39:04 AM »

Giuseppe,
For the Ki-61, look in the Frame or Front mesh. Years ago when I raised its sight a bit for my own pleasure, I noticed as well that the view hooks were not where I expected.

The sight has a prominent support which attaches it to the dashboard. It will not tolerate a particularly large lifting without looking weird. You might also be able to lift the sight a bit with respect to the aforementioned frame.

It's been so long now, that the details of what I did have dimmed in memory. ;)

Glenn
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Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people. - Hyman Rickover (but probably predating his use.)
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