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[BlackAce7727]

BAT for myself is incredible... so much content unique to it's creation. No question with what's included in it, from modern day mods to ancient ones that had long since disappeared. I personally find it a great privilege to have it and adding extras is no big deal (Providing you know what's compatible). As Vampire said unless you know what you're doing in adding mods to other types like UP 3.0, HSFX, DBW 1.71 and of course the VP Modpack.

Let it's growth continue and enjoy it for what it is and in my eyes like UP and DBW it's a masterpiece.

All the best,
BlackAce
(Eric)

[SAS~GJE52]

Piet,
I am not a troll, that comment is unworthy of you.

I see your point of view Piet, but we will have to agree to disagree I'm afraid.

I have long said that a common base for things such as weapons, "Engines mod". map objects etc .. even the maps themselves if you wish is IMHO the best way forward. A base game, patched up to 4.12.2 with the basic common elements added is a superb platform and it allows the user to customize their install to suit their own needs .. without having the enormous bloat-ware of the huge pack option. Beyond the stock aircraft, users would be free to download only the aircraft they want to fly or fly against nothing more. Without the problem of the java wall that comes with installing excessive mods, there would be no need to pack mods to make them inaccessible without specialist tools and knowledge. It is this process that locks prospective modders out of the game that does make us as guilty as TD when you consider how it works in practice. Without good quality, fresh mods the users will lose interest and that is why the game will die. SAS used to fight hard to keep modding alive... I am not sure the same is true today.

To answer a previous comment, I agree that  ship mods are complicated to load, but they are actually animated scenery, eye candy or at best floating airfields. This is a combat flight sim. If you want ships then that is the way the game works.

Modders working to develop new aircraft that comply fully with the common base requirements and the game's requirements ( as set out in the famous modders bible) would ensure both choice, quality and compatibility across the game.

Guys who simply play this game get everything for free. If they have to learn to adapt their game in the correct manner to add mods (rather than have everything handed to them on a plate) then that if you like is the price they have to pay... There is no such thing as a free lunch...

When you consider the bigger picture, some might say that those who simply play the game and sing the praises of the "big pack" either haven't considered or failed to grasp the wider implications and are like turkeys voting for Christmas.

That is why I said that "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". The basic idea of BAT and similar packs looks great in theory, however the practical implications will have long term impact on mod development and continued interest.in the game .. both for players and mod creators. You cannot simply grasp at the perceived benefits of this course of action without considering the longer term collateral damage.
That was the way TD approached the development of the game and that is why I am afraid that some will say ( and do on other sites) that we have simply fallen into the same trap.

 You started this site because you had a passion for the modded game, I joined SAS back then because I believed in what you were trying to achieve. It is not a case of big pack verses little pack as you state or about personal glory ..... it is about keeping modding alive and the game "open". Giving some recognition for those who give up their spare time to create and share quality mods. Either way, intended or not, the big pack philosophy locks the game down I am sure that if you sit back and think about the bigger picture you would understand.

This was not intended as a lecture or a sermon, although it probably looks like that to most. If it provides some food for thought then that is a start..... if it simply becomes a stick for others to beat me with, then that is not unusual.

I will leave it there .

GJE52

[Gubi]

Sup GJE?  Well put and definitely a well grounded basis for discussion.  I will not, however, get into any of that in detail.  I offer my broad view of my passionate hobby, WWII (Golden Age...and etc...) aircraft.  This SIM has allowed me to skip from being a 1/72 model building freak, who gazed at my planes and imagined them flying, into a geek who can fly them in IL2.  So.  Here I am.  I've got BAT 4.1, or whatever, loaded and running.  Hardly ever go to it...as with all the other backups I've got.  Virtually, daily...there is some time in the evening when I sit and pull my DBW out of the garage to go and have some perverted swim on some ridiculous virtual map...to go hunt enemies...and so on.  DBW is the one I keep...and pull it out of the garage like a well polished 1958 Studebaker.  It all runs...and I've got everything in it, for me (if not, most every aircraft out...).  I visit this forum to appreciate like minded folks.  I find empirical griping, of any sort really, a tiresome interlude on my hobby.  I respect you all...and, of course, I am a moron.  Cheers and prost

[DESPEREAUX]

What can be the way out of this situation?
It is simply impossible to refuse the work done.
You need to look for a way out of the situation.
It is possible to use BAT as a base mod, on which you can further install new mods.
Also, the creation of a dedicated online server for WAW, can give a new round of life for BAT, and possibly modding in general.
In theory, there should always be some way out.

[asheshouse]

The only arguments put forward against the “Big Pack” approach are that individual mod contributors do not receive sufficient credits, and that individual mods are not accessible, and not available for separate download.

First on credits, what more could the BAT team do? They already make great efforts to ensure that correct credits are given both by pre release posts in the BAT section and extensive content pdf booklets included in the pack.

Individual mods in the pack are still accessible if you unpack the sfs files. Not a simple thing to do but still doable. The pack does not have a cryptic lock, like some of the TD stuff.

Individual release of mods is entirely up to the original modder. Individual release has never been prevented. Of course if the original modder doesnt want to or cant be bothered to release the mod themselves then of course it wont happen.

The big advantage of a standard pack is the encouragement it gives to mission and campaign builders to do their stuff. Little gives me more pleasure than to see one of the mods I have worked on being used in a good campaign. Bring it on.

Long live BAT.

[Knochenlutscher]

Well said Piet,

I hope people have a heart and read through your words.

Cheers all
Tobias

[UberDemon]

In my opinion, I think that BAT is a great achievement for what it tries to do.

It updates and adds much content in an organized fashion, and especially with RED CORE/BLUE EDGE, it is done with much professionalism that rivals commercial packages.  It has done for IL-2 what I think no other community has, but I am biased.

It removes the "tinker" with factor.  Sometimes it is nice to be able to click a button and go, instead of wasting time trying to get things to work.

The BAT selector offers alternatives, namely, you can play the stock 4.12, or you can play the TOTALLY OPEN ARCHITECTURE, and incredibly AWESOME SAS MODACT.  You can add whatever modpacks to it, and you can shift back to BAT when you want.  Of course I recommend the "Fly AI planes" mod pack for SAS MODACT.

It would be great if we eventually figure a way to make 4.13 and 4.14 work as baselines, but there are major issues with that as we all know.  And for whatever stock updates come up, it seems we have very good alternatives in this community.

So... well... cheers.  I hope that makes sense, and uh... I approve this message...

[Wing Walker]

but.. what about updating the mod in the future?

As BAT is now,

... it has so much content I could literally spend the next 20 years + and still not of utilized every bit of it.  Nor of gotten bored with it.

If you are a history aviation freak I'm not sure how you could, there is nothing with as much development even close too it.

[ZeroPilot]

Hello Men, I've heard it like this, We both can be wrong, but We both can't  be right.

[SGT68]

If you prefer the pack, great. If not then download each mod and install it but remember, some planes and other mods are dependant on other mods so there will be a lot of downloading.

Being someone who is very specific about what aspects of WW2 flying sim I play, I avoided BAT as there was too much content that i would never play with. My passion is Ground Attack, Close support, and Coastal Command type stuff, so also being someone who actually enjoys downloading and tinkering with text files i have created for my own satisfaction SGT68's Ground Attack Pack... its rather lovely with all of DreamK's weapons packaged into one JSGME entry.  Unfortunately I don't really have the time and confidence to release it as a mod addition to vanilla Modact 5.3... maybe i should, I've never really contributed anything and i would like to

[whistler]

My 2 cents... what you have to ask yourself is whether you are willing to support your pack or not once it is out. If you can't be bothered or you don't have the time to support it, then set expectations right by clearly stating so. Other members may eventually support the pack or even improve it, but people with questions and issues will be expecting some kind of support, mainly from you!

[SGT68]

My 2 cents... what you have to ask yourself is whether you are willing to support your pack or not once it is out. If you can't be bothered or you don't have the time to support it, then set expectations right by clearly stating so. Other members may eventually support the pack or even improve it, but people with questions and issues will be expecting some kind of support, mainly from you!

thank you - i hadnt thought of that