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[BlackAce7727]

Mike,

When it comes to the 309 and 509 you can see why they were scrapped whilst they were in development/design. Heck the 509 was scrapped before the prototype was even built.

Granted the Bf-109 series solidered on with 80 odd marks of the type but the 209 and the 309 COULD have given the Lufwaffe a fighter as an evolution like the Fw-190D/Ta-152 series. They were heavyweight fighters but with a much superior engine in shape of the Jumo.

The Bf-109 should have been retired in 1942 instead of suffering what these concepts did in terms of getting heavier and less maneuverable.

BlackAce

[SAS~Storebror]

Agreed. What I'm trying to say is that it's slightly disappointing to see planes that were known to be heavy fighters suddenly outrun and outturn everything on planet earth when certain modders start to "work" on 'em.
Happened to other such planes before (Corsair anyone?), happened to the 309 and 509 right now.

Don't get me wrong: I appreciate the work done to get these birds into the game.
I'd just suggest that either the modder who did the flight model gets to learn the basics of it, or if he knows them, reconsiders his bias, or if he hasn't any, steps back for a week or two before getting back at it again.


Mike

[BlackAce7727]

The thing Mike is that,

These 2 what-if fighters have been given the treatment that the final variants could have achieved. Granted the REAL aircraft used an underpowered and heavy engine (DB-605E) which had the power but again too much weight.

The 309 and the 509 will always be a pair of genuine "what if's" confined to history. Like the later fictional Ta-152H-4/H-6 fighters... Overpowered quietly styled monsters and the 309 and 509 fit in that category for alternative history.

Like you Mike I heavily commend the modding team for these ladies and they've been wanted for a long and I mean LONG time...

So it's completed the Messerschmitt piston fighter lineage except one... The Me-209C-II.. 

BlackAce (Eric)

[SAS~Storebror]

The Me-209C-II

Whatever that may be...

[BlackAce7727]

The original Me-209...

[SAS~Storebror]

Seriously can't remember having that one being referred to as "Me-209C-II"

[BlackAce7727]

She's had a few names, Me-209C, Bf-109R and Me-209-II. Trust me I don't know much history on it except she was originally designed as a racing plane with military applications.. 

[SAS~Storebror]

109R: Yes, that's one of the known propaganda names for it.
209-II: That's the one we have already, based on the second model, aka V5.
209C: New to me.

[BlackAce7727]

Sadly Mike it's going and learning on false information I've read. The 209-II we have now yes so that's out. The 209C name comes from the supposed Lufwaffe version which might have been put into production given if the Bf-109 had a replacement which inevitably lead to the equal which was of course the Fw-190. Bf-109R I knew about and in your observation was the propaganda name for her. 

[Vampire_pilot]

The one of a kind 209 Rennversion/Racer was named to confuse intelligence about military use (which it never had. It would be like making a GeeBee into a fighter... oh wait, we did that) - It still does to this day obviously. A bit like the F-19 Stealth scam.

As for the FMs here, 309 and 509, the values used for weight and power are the ones that can be found in literature, at least for the 309. I just thought it's worth pointing out that there are no grossly exaggerated values used here. Still, using a few real life values does not make a real life flight behavior in Il-2, so that observation also holds.

[DONAGHY]

talking about the me fighters  have a look at the me 709 push pull plane its quite a nice looking plane but never built shame  s all zeppo and happy new year  and be safe


Messerschmitt (Me-709/A2): This aircraft used a pull/push layout. It was in an attempt to minimize drag and keep overall dimensions as compact as possible, offering only a small target.

     penguin 200 filter instructions

[David Prosser]

Nailed it.