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[Geschirr]

Hello, can someone point me in the right direction, help me understand how to modify load outs?  I tried messing around in weapons properties and taking an F-104A load out into the F-104C, that didn't work.  I did some searching on the forums and can't find anything more helpful than "ask a modder" which I would hate to waste their time.

I am trying to create an "accurate" video of the events leading up to and subsequent capture of, Capt Phillip E. Smith flying an F-104C, shot down by a Chinese Mig-19, September 1965.  I've read his book, a number of F-104 books, finishing a script, and staring to put things into motion in FMB.
The load out for the F-104A/A 319 FIS is what I need (Fighter:_2xAim9B+2xDroptank) on the F-104C.  The Aim-9s are on the wing tip and the drop tanks are under the wing. 

The F-104C has the same load out name (Fighter:_2xAim9B+2xDroptank).  However the Aim-9s are under the wing and the drop tanks are on the wing tip.  The configuration Capt Smith was flying in had the Aim-9s on the wing tip and the drop tanks under the wing.  The problem lies in the F-104C has the air fueling probe while the A's do not, missing a vital visual aesthetic (that maybe 1% will notice).  I've gone back in forth deciding whether to do this project in DCS or IL-2, but the DCS F-104 Mod is a G (also without the refueling probe, and their KC-135s are Es so the engine is wrong and they don't have the boom drogue).  Good old Il-2 1946 has everything I need, as always(correct KC-135, KC-130, F-102, maps, aircraft, objects, ships, ease of use in FMB and camera controls) except for the F-104C load out.  If I get told to pound sand, I will, and I will just try to get creative with my editing.  If I can get some help or an updated load out (F-104C with Aim-9s on the wing tips and drop tanks beneath the wing) I would be grateful and would make things a lot easier.


F-104A showing load out I need.  Drop tanks are invisible in the QMB, but appear when flying.


F-104A 319 FIS showing load out I need.  Drop tanks are invisible in the QMB, but appear when flying.


F-104C with the same load out description, different configuration.


F-104A with desired load out in flight.


F-104C with same load out description, different configuration.

All air-to-air load out descriptions and configurations for F-104C.  Numerous other load outs, but for air-to-ground. I have scrolled through all the load outs repeatedly.








Here is an example of my work.  Thank you.

[SAS~Skylla]

I don't have the according files required for those F-104 models, but when it comes to editing loadouts that can usually be done in the plane's according Java class for a quick edit. In that regard you might want to take a look at the Common Utils and their AircraftTools.weaponsRegister method.

But as I said I don't know the F-104 files, it could also be well possible that their loadouts are defined in the proprietary encrypted "cod" format. In order to get your hands on the loadout definitions, you would in that case need to ask the according author for an unencrypted version of these files first and transfer those into Java to alter them.

[Vampire_pilot]

Hello, can someone point me in the right direction, help me understand how to modify load outs?  I tried messing around in weapons properties and taking an F-104A load out into the F-104C, that didn't work.  I did some searching on the forums and can't find anything more helpful than "ask a modder" which I would hate to waste their time.

unfortunately the answer is: you can't do it yourself. Especially not in BAT.
You need to know how to extract, convert and manipulate cod files for that.
The above hint to transfer it to java won't help in an environment where the cod file exists. A cod file overrides anything in the java, unless you tell the java class to ignore the cod file specifically.

So indeed, asking about it directly is probably the easiest way to go
I'll look into that particular load out variant on the C and let you know what I find out.

[Vampire_pilot]

hm, since all the weapons hooks are apparently interchangeable, it was a matter of 5 minutes.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/4m149pcsr6aebxo/F104C.zip/file

.../#JTW3/Mod_name_of_your_chosing/cod/xxxxx



I'll ad it to the next update.

[enry711]

Hi guys
Since I'm quite expert on the 104 matter I wanted to drop my opinion. The F-104A with the current loadout in BAT (2 missiles + 2 DTs under the wings) was tested but deemed impractical and extreme due to the severe aerodynamical problems of having the droptanks under the wings. The F-104A, just like any other 104, had the possibility to carry 2 droptanks on the wingtips or 4 in all stations.
The current setup is not really that accurate.
The only time I've seen the droptanks under the wings of a 104 was with some italian F-104S ASA. It occurred because the flight hours of the wingtip tanks in service for that unit did not permit to use them anymore; therefore the italian pilots were forced to attach the droptanks under the wings instead of the standard wing tip station, leading to "a nightmare" experience.

Hope it is useful 

[Geschirr]

Thank you so much vampire_pilot!!! Your 5 minutes was two wasted afternoons and an evening.  Installed it just fine into  #JTW3\Classes-Other\cod.
Thanks again, now I can get to "filming."

[Geschirr]

enry711 here are a couple links to photos of F-104Cs with drop tanks under the wing in Vietnam.

https://www.i-f-s.nl/da-nang-aircraft-part-1/

https://www.i-f-s.nl/da-nang-aircraft-part-2/

[enry711]

Thanks for the info Geschirre. Very interesting.
Personally I've never seen F-104Cs with that loadout but it seems that at Da Nang some were effectively loaded with this configuration. I felt that I had to reply to this topic because I know via books and interviews a couple of Starfighter pilots. All of them recall to have seen this peculiar arrangement of droptanks but they all think it was very very rare and greatly disliked by pilots. The main problem is that the overall stability of the 104 was offset completely by putting the DTs under the wings instead of the wing tips 

[Vampire_pilot]

there is one item that I could understand why in an actual combat scenario, this config was chosen.

Vega had a discussion about the item when he made this plane as I recall: The wingtip tanks could be detached in flight. However, that was supposed to be a last ditch effort and maybe even more disliked by pilots - so I recall from the discussions back then.

If for some reason the pilots in Vietnam felt better about conventional droptank setup, that could be the cause. The tanks were just plain in flight range extenders, no hard maneuvers to be flown with anyway. They would ditch the tanks in combat regularly, never enter with them attached. Then, the config with the AIM-9 on the wingtips could be the superior arrangement - or at least the less horrible one.

edit: Asymmetric AIM-9 placement after fox-2 comes to mind as well! The tanks would be there or gone as a pair. The AIM-9 would not. You would have air combat situation with asymmetric underwing stations against enemy fighters (Vietnam, not Intercept Russian bombers)
I guess, that sounds like an absolute nightmare in light of what enry wrote. I guess the wingtips are much less critical with one AIM-9 there and one gone.

On the pics above, none of the 104s with wingpip tanks even carries AIM-9. Either they are shown clean or with bombs or with ferry loadout and 4 tanks.

Geschirre: you are welcome. You could pay me back by sending me that Pensacola populated mission file from your screenshots maybe?