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Author Topic: Some thoughts on bomb effectiveness  (Read 1412 times)

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AirShark

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Re: Some thoughts on bomb effectiveness
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2022, 04:09:37 AM »

Tallboy is an earthquake bomb, maybe 460m for the blast but the destruction is supposed to go way beyond that 
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WxTech

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Re: Some thoughts on bomb effectiveness
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2022, 05:31:58 AM »

To make the reduced damage radius of the 2000lb bombs more clearly seen, here are 4 separated drops of single bombs on a town at night. Between 3 and 8 buildings are destroyed by each bomb, as opposed to the couple dozen or so previously. Also seen here is a newly added 20% probability of the largest object Body types (Rock and Wood, all Fuel types already being handled thusly) having an illumination source accompanying  the fire. (Buildings are almost always of Body type WoodSmall, Wood, RockMiddle, RockBig and Rock, as set in static.ini.) I have such a small fraction being given the illumination as a means of hopefully keeping from surpassing a seeming game engine limit to the number of illumination sources permissible. I like the additional ambience of these sources lighting their immediate surroundings.

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WxTech

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Re: Some thoughts on bomb effectiveness
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2022, 05:44:24 AM »

A bit more on the addition of the occasional illumination source with a damage fire. Here more bombs have been dropped, with the result of a near carpet of smoke blowing largely horizontally and almost fully 'hiding' the procedings. The occasional illumination source partly lights up the overflowing smoke, providing a glow from within. Evocative of what real fires do. Too bad many more illumination sources could not be generated...

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Dimlee

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Re: Some thoughts on bomb effectiveness
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2022, 01:33:53 PM »

Materials and construction types do play an important role, don't they... Brick buildings, wooden huts, concrete monolith, concrete panels, steel reinforced, etc. Different types of soil as well.
The current war in Ukraine brings many examples of various damages done by the same type of ordnance. A cruise missile can crush 4 stores panel structure completely or just make "a den" in the apartment tower. And another tower collapses... One FAB-1000 levels all houses around (within a certain radius) while another one makes a deep crater surrounded by houses damaged but standing. Shopping malls look huge and impressive but turn into a pile of rubble by 500-1000 kg warhead...
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Dreamk

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Re: Some thoughts on bomb effectiveness
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2022, 03:39:12 AM »

Real data (ww2 TNT explosive USA bombs produced till end 1942) :

Detonation at ground level (what is what the game engine simulates for all bombs, whatever their type or their fuzing)
Brick Wall buildings will be demolished at these distances:
2000lb GP                                  about 55 to 60 ft
4000lb Light case                       about 110ft
12000lb GP (Tallboy)                  about 120ft (this bomb is heavier but contains only 40% more explosive charge than the 4000lb LC bomb)
Of course destruction and damage will happen at considerably greater distances
The distances at which the demolition will happen depends of the critical side-on impulse:
light structure and wall-bearing brick buildings will be destroyed at distances at which the side-on impulse in 90 lb-ms/ square in.
For heavy construction the critical impulse is about 120-150 lb-ms/sq.in.
For damage visible on reconnaissance photographs the impulse is about 60 to 80 lb-ms/sq.in

More advanced explosives introduced from 1943 onwards generated greater impulses

These data are building demolition data, they do not reflect the various killing /injuries levels ranges (blast + frags) , nor of course the safety range which is much, much wider.

Blast damage of personnel:
100lb    40ft
300lb    55ft
600lb    75ft
1100lb  90ft
2000lb 110ft

Frag danger radius
100lb to 1100lb         1000 yard
2000lb     2000yards

Now concerning Safe altitudes for dropping. WW2 official documents indicate for a 100lb US bomb a minimum of 1500ft  and for a 4000lb bomb a minimum of 4000ft

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WxTech

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Re: Some thoughts on bomb effectiveness
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2022, 03:58:30 AM »

DreamK,
That's good info; thanks!

My concerns relate primarily to the full destruction of buildings, and the resultant fire/smoke effects which can exceed game engine limits. And the stock ranges over which such full destruction can occur are considerably exagerrated, even without worrying about the resource hit.

The Java code utilizes different explosion types, the main difference being whether splinters are a factor. How to choose a suitable damage radius will require to understand how the engine computes damage, an area I've not yet looked into.
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Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people. - Hyman Rickover (but probably predating his use.)

Dreamk

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Re: Some thoughts on bomb effectiveness
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2022, 07:14:52 AM »

For incendiaries the java code is stupid. It uses the weight (massa) of the bomb as a threshold criteria for which incendiary effect to invoke. and some incendiary effects have to much particles (quite un-necessary in fact , you can get a very good incendiary effect with much less particles) and this makes the game freeze when too many incendiaries are r5eleaed. I bypassed this problem by creating new incendiary effects in my USWW2 bomb pack - for some bombs as 100lb phosphorous, I included the desired new effect in the java of the bomb, bypassing the relevant lines in the explosion class to use a new effect at collision defined in the java of the specific bomb.
For some others like some small incendiaries, the new effects files are included in the pack and use the threshold of the game engine.
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WxTech

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Re: Some thoughts on bomb effectiveness
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2022, 11:34:06 AM »

DreamK,
Weapons are an area I have largely ignored until recently, and I have only ever utilized those made by modders where it was necessary for any new planes or plane mods. Clearly I have some deeper investigation to conduct. Your work looks to be a good starting point!

Glenn
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Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people. - Hyman Rickover (but probably predating his use.)
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